ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
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Ado-p's Learning new moves thread...  find similar
05/08/04 01:50 AM
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*edit*
so i reckon this thread will hold a record of the new things and stuff im learning along the way, all input of any kind is welcome...
*edit*
*where was I? oh yeah here, The elbow, arm, arm elbow roll*
Its simple really, I cant do it.
I've seen some real nice clips of this move (Thankyou MCP/Glass) but I still seem to be missing somthing fundamental.
So I take the staff in my right hand, bring it accross my body under my extended left elbow and roll. extend left arm and let staff roll onto right arm. Bring staff back towards body on right arm
Now here is the problem, it just stops working there, I think i might be missing an extra beat/spin or something. Or it it could be the position of my wrist. Dont ask me what my wrist is doin, it goes all wonky in a natural reaction to the feeling of the staff falling off when i start bending my right arm on the way back in,
Any ideas?
If I can get this I'll move onto to trying to combine it with a shoulder rool and a turn to get it across my back and other shoulder.
I'm hoping to put up a clip soon, not of what i cant do but of what I can, after six months it's be cool to get some HOP feedback.
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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mcp
The Flying Water Muppet
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05/08/04 04:12 AM
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Sounds like you're doing it right.
The hard part is getting the right arm to elbow wrap. (bringing the staff back in toward your body on the back of your right wrist and wrapping your right elbow)
Then you have variations. (Dum dum dum!)
I learnt two new ones at Graz/EJC/Spitz and about three ways to do it with doubles. I love other people. Maybe if somebody lends me a video camera I can be anal and document every variation. hmmm variations... 
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firegod69
member
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05/08/04 06:10 AM
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That sounds hard !!
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
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05/08/04 08:41 AM
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Yipee, I got it, *does a little dance*
Nice one mcp, i dont know what you did but the magic worked. Must be all the positive spinning you carried back from your trip....
I havent landed a new move in ages, its very satisfying ...Yipeee!!!!
Other things i learned tonight:
Something that may or may not be a snake/shoulder roll. ie. while making to pass over hand behind my head i bring it accross my shoulder back to the front. feels great.
Also learned to keep the staff in plane while leaning forward 90 degrees and doing a pinwheel in the helicopter plane above and below my head/body.
Oh and got alot better at getting an extra spin(s) while doing a horizontal neck wrap by leaning my head forward and letting the staff do its spinny thang.
Things i stilll cant do,
That arm lock thing that dragon7 posted in his vid, its cool and i cant do it, Dragon, what are you doing with your arm when your hand passes from the front to behind your shoulder, i cant seem to release the staff without breaking my arm....
A rotor using only open hands with palms facing down, staff just keeps getting away from me. at the moment im blaming the staff, i think this one is just practise practise practise.
things i want to learn
a pivot, a steve and btb elbow wraps
so if anyone wants to pitch in i would be eternally gratefull, payment will be in the format of an invitation to come to cork and sleep on my couch after spinning fire in front of an opera house. i will also give you biscuits or sausages...
 
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
Edited by ado-p (05/08/04 11:03 AM)
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Dragon7
Awhiowhio
Member #6074
Reged: 17/10/03
Loc: Aotearoa (NZ)
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05/08/04 11:59 AM
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Written by:
That arm lock thing that dragon7 posted in his vid, its cool and i cant do it, Dragon, what are you doing with your arm when your hand passes from the front to behind your shoulder, i cant seem to release the staff without breaking my arm....
LMFAO dude  there is no arm breaking required or sholder dislocating 
I use a move called a "pinch". Thats when you pinch it between your thumb and index finger. (but you can "pinch" in alot of other places ie between chin and sholder, bicep and forarm etc etc. ) You can also do finger twirls to add even MORE rotations  but thats only used for showing off Just keep trying to do as many rotations as you can, being carefull not to tear you rotator cuff, then change direction.
If i were you, id keep pushing this contact move as far as you can and add chin/sholder pinch's and reverse it, neck rolls etc because after you get 1 variation all the rest just seem to fall in place.
I did find 1 awsome new contact move and have finally perfected it, its like a 3 rotation contact arm roll while the arm moves around your body, sort of 3/4 contact roll 1/4 fishtail. Only have part of it on video so ill have to shoot it oneday 
And just keep playing and trying new stuff, it takes time to learn some things so if you throw different moves into the mix youll cream it and start to learn alot of moves all at the same time
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mcp
The Flying Water Muppet
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Reged: 20/05/03
Loc: Edin-borrow.
258948
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05/08/04 06:36 PM
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if you want to use just the back of your hands for the rotor, just try and keep the staff sloooooowwwww. (also, keep your arms straight, I think it looks better this way) Plus there are two ways to do it, (which I alternate in order to control the staff more) : Spinning clockwise in front of you: the right hand stays still the left hand constantly fetches the staff and pushes it over the right. 2 : The wrists are crossed and the right hand pushes it from underneath the left to wrap the left. The first one tends to speed the staff up, the second to slow it down. (you can't give it as much push with your wrists crossed) So that's how I keep them in control.
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
259019
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05/08/04 11:04 PM
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MCP nice one, with a bit more practise I should be smooth and set, I have the first one down cept im using opposite hands to you, the other I'm not so sure about... if i keep the palms down let the staff roll across the back of me hands.... i cant visualise this, but will give it a spin later. Would you like some biscuits? (this my secret plan to lure you to Eire and teach me everything in the world)
Dragon, in one post you have intruiged and confounded me. Its so clear when I watch the clip but when try it I just end up going, huh!!! I have made it my personal mission to nail this. I love moves like this because the can flow very nicely into other moves and transitions. I think, I think that when your arm comes over that you are pinching with palm up/wrist back, im pretty sure I've been doing it palm down and thus unable to rotate or change direction. Soon as I get home I'll have a look
*Stares at ruler on desk and wonders…*
I must see this rolly fishy move you speaketh of also,
Onward we go,
Its worth noting that until I get my wooden staff rewick'd im practising these simple contact moves on Roxanne (my red concentrate staff) for spinny purposes this baby is the business for for contact purposes the contoured grip and ovaer all balance can only be decribed as 'feeling gammy'.
Helicopter to Neck wrap with extra spin, pinch and spin again on neck
I was thinking I could try to set the staff into a pinch between my head/shoulder after it does its spin, If I rotate my body around and release it should spin again on the back of my neck again, right? Anyone else tried this? Its getting it into the pinch that seems to be catching me here. Maybe I need to leen a bit more forward and to the side to get the staff into the right position….
Rotor to Neck Wrap to Shoulder/Arm Roll,
If I lean my shoulder forward a tiny bit here and lean my head back a tiny bit just at the right moment I can get the staff to roll down the back of my arm (with arm down and to the side) and spin on (if I really lean my head back the staff will just drop straight down into my waiting hand for a tiny weeny no look catch). I have seen this a varation of this done though and that’s where im headed with this. With a little more shoulder lean/twist and arm lifted up/elbow pointed out the staff rolls accros neck then across shoulder out along the back of upper arm and then onto forearm. Once again its clear in my head but not in my hand….
What im going for here are what seem to me like the basic fundamentals of contact work, elbow wraps/rolls, shoulder wraps/rolls, pinches, and spins across shoulder and neck etc annt then onto crrrazzy combos of all. Not to difficult stuff but just a little bit tricksy will do nicely for now.
Anyone for tea? (posts are getting longer so I hope im makin sense)
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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mcp
The Flying Water Muppet
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05/08/04 11:52 PM
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Learn everything both ways! Raaaaaaarw!
And er, try turning with the stick gripped between your hands... (not actually gripped with your palms, more the sides and back.)
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
259037
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05/08/04 11:59 PM
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Written by: mcp
Learn everything both ways! Raaaaaaarw!
And er, try turning with the stick gripped between your hands... (not actually gripped with your palms, more the sides and back.)
#
Both ways rocks, I always thought in my head that i was crap spinning to the left then one night while spinning on the street i went to do some move and realised i couldnt coz i was spinning in the opposite direction to my then habit. It was a moment of irony and very funny. I hadnt even realised. now i do it all the time.
now, turning with the stick gripped.... erm, do you mean turning the stick or turn the me?
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mcp
The Flying Water Muppet
Member #4704
Reged: 20/05/03
Loc: Edin-borrow.
259041
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06/08/04 12:24 AM
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both.
well I really meant figure of eighting....
oops.
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
259051
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06/08/04 01:00 AM
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ahh I see, I think i do a variation of this that I came across while trying to learn how to fish tails, I still cant fish but I can do some groovy figure of eights...
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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Fabergé
eggcentric
Member #5576
Reged: 26/08/03
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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06/08/04 02:03 AM
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yes aidan, it sounds like you know your stuff but i still haven't a clue what you're talking about.....
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
259120
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06/08/04 02:16 AM
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I wish i did, have a look at the, 'Need Help Spinning Batons' post a few threads down if you want to see a few folks who know their stuff.
Thats why im here offering people biscuits.
I'll tell you what though, I was really starting to feel like i was stuck in a rut until last night, like i was just repeating myself everytime i spin. The things i learned last night a simple enough once you get the hang of it but it cheered me up no end.
In fact in still grinning
Anybody else get this feeling?
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
260720
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10/08/04 10:57 PM
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A little update on me progress, hang on I need to wiggle first *wiggle*
SO this weekend at the Raithlin Festival (3 days on an island) I finally figured out how to get into a pivot from the elbow rolls I was trying to figure out in my last post.
I can now…. Elbow, arm, arm, elbow shoulder back shoulder arm. Im workin on getting it back across my left elbow again. Can do this with just elbows too.
This was quiet possibly the most exciting thing I've ever figured out. Its not completely smooth yet but I can get it about 7 times out of ten on fire. There are seems to be lots varations of this move so it should keep me busy for a while.
I really feel like this is my first ever 'contact' move. I can see myself moving more and more in this direction. Contact rules me thinketh
Other interesting things from the weekends festivities.
I finally got a decent under the leg move from a nice guy from Cansas. Both feet planted firmly on the ground, arm feeds the staff in from behind other arm catches in front and continues. It nice, easy and flows really well perpendicular to the body. This guy had so much control i nearly fell over. Personally I spin around a lot while twirling and while I don’t really lose control of the staff I sometimes feel like im losing control of my feet. He described his style as 'Always try to feel like your sinking into the ground'. It works too…
Other stuff, Met a very lovely bendy hippy who had tha magic ability to twirl with her feet while lying on the ground. She also had the most gracefull horizontal spinning. With only about three moves (mostly only two) this girl made staff beautiful. I also learned some contortionist tricks with staff from her and now I look a lot bendier than I really am…
More other stuff. Just after my flames went out a guy came up to me and quietly asked me if he could show me something. In one move he completely blew my mind and made me realise that even though I know some, its really nothing compared to whats possible. From a lovely sort of figure of eight to a perfect transition into helicopter plane. Then he bent forward and I started looking for my jaw, which had fallen off. He had the most fluid graceful behind the back palm and finger spins I can imagine. Don’t ask me how many beats he got as be twirled it back around into another flawless transition to vertical. That was it, he didn’t want to do fire. Just arrived, showed me the move and dissappeared. Very nice guy indeed.
I also learned that I can do a move that I don’t know how to do. I did at least three times over the weekend and it feels really cool. But I don’t know how to do it!!! It’s a transition from over the head in front rotor with a 360 piroiuette and two hand changes to a behind the head rotor . I do moves like this a lot but there is something im doin that changes it slightly, I don’t know what it is yet though, so sorry if this whole paragraph makes no sense at all. Has this happened any of you guys, its kinda funny, coz when I do it I think 'wow that cools, but what did I just do?'.
Next up, The Steve, having some trouble getting the staff to roll of my wrist and down my arm but once I get that I should be able to oncorporat the neckwraps and back spins I can do. Should be fun.
After that fishtails. I can do a sort of half one on each side with one hand. I still have to change hands and cross over to stop it from falling off though.
Onwards
later
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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Fräulein
Fireotographer on Hiatus
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11/08/04 12:56 AM
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"I see," said the blind man.
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Ifrit
The GF of HoP
Member #11283
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Loc: Somerset, England
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18/08/04 10:02 PM
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How long has it taken you to get to th stage your at?
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fire leads to creation
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
264571
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19/08/04 03:49 PM
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I've been spinning since Feb 2004 or there abouts
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
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08/09/04 06:16 AM
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Just did my very first Fishtail!!!!
Its not lovely or smooth and i can only get one on each side.... but its fishy!!!!
other things i learned:
gotta at least three dif behind the back throw and catches. one with a full pirouette while staff is in the air
also got a full 360 (more like 300) turn with an elbow wrist wrist elbow (turn 180) back roll (turn 180) elbow wrist. Again not perfect but feels great knowing i can get this continious evantually.
staff in left hand spinning behind back anti cockwise,left arm elbow roll and roll over back or front of neck if i feel like hurting my adams apple. Cannot get it to go accross to other albow though
I find it difficult gettin it out onto that opposite elbow from alot of different moves (well all of them ). Could be a stretchy thing. Any advice pretty please?
Anyway .... Fishtails yay!!!!!
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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Dr_Molly
MQ
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Reged: 04/05/04
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08/09/04 08:37 PM
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yay to fishtails
congratulations 
am confused as to your elbows so nothing helpful to add ...
xx
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ben-ja-men
gay model poet aka derik troy
Member #4889
Reged: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
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08/09/04 11:51 PM
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come to london we can sort you out with the elbow thing ...... failing that just make sure its rolling across your back and not falling from elbow to elbow and that as it rolls over your first elbow you leave your elbow there as you bring you other elbow round for it to roll over until you cant leave it there anymore
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
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09/09/04 12:00 AM
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ben you may have hit the nail on the head. i'd bet money that my moving my elbow away (thus the staff) as i'm trying to bring my other elbow back to recieve. I reckon i need to start the roll more centered too.
come december i may take you up on that invite.....
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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ben-ja-men
gay model poet aka derik troy
Member #4889
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Loc: Adelaide
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09/09/04 12:12 AM
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sadly ill be leaving these shores on december 1st  but theres loooooooads of spinners here who will be able to show you how
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
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09/09/04 01:35 AM
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sweet
if i get over before then i'll be sure to look you up, so that i may learn confusatron to confuse people as you have so confused me.
nice moves....
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
Edited by ado-p (09/09/04 02:00 AM)
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ben-ja-men
gay model poet aka derik troy
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Loc: Adelaide
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09/09/04 10:40 PM
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actually the video is of steve but i can teach you the confusatron to
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
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09/09/04 10:49 PM
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I thought about this after posting it, then figured that all of you uber staffers would be capable of such wonderment.
Right now im still trying to learn how to roll things accross my back with something resembling grace .
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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