Double staff starter, full trick list ect...

Well I finally got a name…

I smacked myself in the wrist yesterday and although its nice out side I cant play :-) So, instead I thought id list all the staff moves I know for you. This should get the basics down and then the list can be added to as people develop more tricks. Cool?

First of course is figure eights these can be done in sync (one hand making forward 8s whilst the other goes backward) and counter-flow (cant think of a good term) where both hands are doing the same thing either alternate sides of the body or together, like a butterfly.

I cannot transition directly from sync to counter-flow but within those two categories there are a heap of stuff. Also, with both its very easy to pirouette and feels great!

In sync:

1 learn the extra half-twist on the forward figure8, then you can (with one stick) spin backwards from hand side to opposite back to hand and then behind you for 1.5 spins bringing back up to backwards and repeat. (if all else fails just move around with the stick for a while putting the half-twist in where you can)

In sync time you can do this with both hands alternately, so that the sticks follow each other round the body, reverse and go back and can be turned into a pirouette too.

2. Continuous aerials. The backward spinning staff is thrown whilst the forward is swapped behind the back and repeat. Easier than it sounds, a full description can be found on the ‘double staff aerials’ thread.

3. windmills and corkscrews, round the world. All basically the same trick and all come from poi, there is a crazy double corkscrew post but I cant figure it out.

In counter flow:

Pirouettes: bit more scary in counter flow, staves recommended. Cant actually pirouette when the sticks are spinning on the same side of my body but you can turn butterflies cant you? so it must be possible I guess

1: the half twist comes in useful here too, in counter flow, facing one way is always forwards and the other is backwards, and when facing forwards the twist can either be used alternatively, which feels great or to make a 3 beat butterfly, which is tiring.

2: the only aerials I have for counter flow is the straight vertical swap mentioned in the previous thread where backwards running staffs are passed in front of each other simultaneously to opposite hands. (this makes them transition to forward spinning staff btw)

3: In Backwards Alternate counter-flow (humm, getting a terminology? Still don’t like counter-flow) you can horosontalize the staffs for a nice feeling cross corkscrew type thing

Transitions!

So, how do we get between all of these little trick and places. Obviously from forward to backward alternate is just a turn but what about from alternate to simultaneous? When going forwards alternate the trick is to slip a two finger spin into the action with one hand whilst the other moves normally. I think there are quicker or more complicated finger spins to do it but I aint worked them out yet (woulda but for this hand, humm) and anyway, finger spins are a whole other thing.

From the top of a forward butterfly you can make half turn and arrive in sync, similarly you can do a half turn in sync and with a little angling be in backwards simultaneous counter-flow. This is made easier if you can finger spin, so I move on.

Finger spins!

Really really really useful to know with staffs as it can instantly double up almost all of your tricks. Especially to learn to go between forward and reverse finger spinning continuously (720 degrees on each side) I find it especially fun with the butterfly, reverse finger spinning in the butterfly and forward at the top, high in the air.

The end! Thanks for reading it, sorry if its too long or garbled, ask for clarification if you want. The aim here is not to blow my own trumpet but learn more, so I you have anything to add, please do.

Cya!

Nix

As to the rest of your post I suggest you read the naming staff moves thread (I'll bump it for you) and then redefine some of the trickier bits in the terms listed therein.
I'm not being nasty but if you go shifting the goalposts now how are we going to keep playing?

Try not to use poi terms when describing stuff either we are trying to form our own art here not borrow off what has gone before
Thanx

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C@ntus

Just worked out that you can transition between sync and cross flow just by turning by 90 degrees and angling out/in to arrive a simultainious cross flow. That helps. Humm…..

NIx

The PIROUETTE with doubles I find very easy, I merely hold my arms out straight and do tiny tiny FIGURE-8'S by swivelling my wrist up and down. This is a great way to speed up the staffs and usually how I put the flames out after a burn with doubles...

Thanks for getting all this down and please keep the list going. It looks like staff is going to be a mainstay on the BB for a while again!

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Charles (INFERNO)

newdolbel@hotmail.com
http://juggling.co.nz

Josh

Thank you Cantus. You've just inspired a new persona for me.

I could, like, make swastikas out of balloons, juggle with truncheons and teach all the children to goosestep...

(gets lost in a disturbing world of some sort)...

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Charles (INFERNO)

newdolbel@hotmail.com
http://juggling.co.nz

PS Josh, how do you do a butterfly with staffs, surely the rotation of the string is what makes a butterfly work? I can do simultaneous FIGURE 8's that have one short 1/2 spin in front hat looks like a butterfly, but surely it can't (oops) surely it VERY HARD to do...

[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 05 November 2001).]

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C@ntus

A great doubles move I have is a simple NECKROLL with one staff while doing FIGURE 8's. Its easier than it sounds and the crowds love it.

(PS the Nazi clown thing was a joke, I forgot to put the after it, sorry Cantus.

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Charles (INFERNO)

newdolbel@hotmail.com
http://juggling.co.nz

hehe - you obviously dont know the joys of fire tool cross-polination...

Josh

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C@ntus

LMAO Cantus, I sympathise with you, and learning all that poi nomenclature. I submitted to the pressure and took up poi so I could figure out what every one on HOP was talking about. Luckily, many poi moves are transferable to staff, and just to confuse things a bit more, a lot of the transition moves a well documented in club swinging.

Anyone got any tips for doing butterflies with double staffs???

If you are talking about more than one rep, do fingerspins...I find it a bit dificult to do without a bit of clashing..and I hate clashing

but its definitely possible.

what problems have you had?

Josh

Josh

But they poi i made were from the very bowels of hell. And they began a vengeful pursuit of my death.

I like staffs. You know where you are with staffs. At no point, when you're spinning your staffs, do you look to see where one is and the other one sneaks up behind you and wraps itself round your neck.
It's one of the plus points of staffs, no potential for strangulation.

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C@ntus

How do you do this neckroll charles? hoisontally or vertically?

Finger spinning butterflys are not too hard, secret is to keep the staffs at an angle to each other. can do it in both directions. if you dont like fingerspins when the staffs are running simultaioius forward you add a half-twist (is ist int the nomalacture? i forget) and that puts an extra 1/2 turn on the butterfly. rise it up and shoot it out, good for the shoulders.

Learned some more stuff over the last couple of days. today I cracked moving from simultainious forward to backward by turning 180 degrees. Only works if you transition as the staffs are going to move front to back. You can still transition when the staffs are behind you but youll end up going the same direction when you turn round.

practice going from cross-flow to sync and back, turning toward the backwards spinning hand to go into forwards cross flow and toward the forward spinning hand for backwards.

humm, sounds hellishly complicated. this is just the way I learned it today. Ill have a play tomorow and try for a simpler description.

Ohh yes, another move for Alternated Backwards cross flow. quite simple, as the sticks come forward infront of the body swing them in big circles of the same direction. This is simalar to round the world but is cross-flow. the effect is to make a staff-length circle above your head pinweeling at the top of a larger arm+staff length circle across your body.

got that? humm not all that articulate today. Glad to see the post running off.

cheers guys....

nIx?

Has any one got a shovel i can borrow?

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C@ntus

[This message has been edited by Cantus (edited 08 November 2001).]

Nix. I prefer the NECKROLL to be horizontal, left side of neck to right side if neck, with my right hand (good hand).

I've done it vertically too, and it doesn't seem any harder. It's just a simple matter of keeping the other staff out of harms way, i.e. straightened elbow on left arm, to stop them clashing.

Come to think about, thats just a general rule for doubles, methinks...

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Charles (INFERNO)
newdolbel@hotmail.com
http://juggling.co.nz

when you say cross flow do you mean something like the poi chase?

when you say going from fwds to bkwds by turning 180 degrees, do you mean the Staves are going fwds and then by turning your body 180 degrees the staves are going in rvs?

having reviewed your post again, I really wish I knew what you meant by cross flow...

Josh