mixinluv2u
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Re: Glowsticking moves, with poi.  find similar
10/04/05 06:29 AM
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i didn't claim anything. you are assuming things. i didn't demand anything RIGHT THIS MOMENT. stop being so defense. get it out when you finish it. but until then, we are not really going anywhere.
and doesn't the fact that most of poi-ers havn't "done any of those moves," say something about the moves themselves? doesn't that make them qualify for more glowstring-oriented? since they were developed with a specific tool in mind - glowsticks on shoelaces...
doesn't that mean it's possible for one to be "pure" glowstring and focus solely on the moves developed specifically for glowstrings? doesn't that valid this seperation of category?
simply put, if there were a good amount of moves that were developed with glowstring-specifically in mind (without worrying about if heavier poi can do them the same, sometimes even try to go the opposite direction as heavier poi), if there were a solid culture, philosophy, community behind glowstring-specifically, doesn't that warrant its seperation?
Edited by mixinluv2u (10/04/05 06:37 AM)
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mixinluv2u
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10/04/05 06:50 AM
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Written by: TheBovrilMonkey
Also, there's been a video posted of an orbit done with fire.
i seen it. but it looks really different. the 2 fire wicks don't spin close to each other together for 2-5 seconds, like the glowsticks do.
the reason we called it orbit airwrap is because it resembles another form of light dancing called orbiting. and when done with fire wick, it looks nothing like orbiting. that's why i think it's different even though they are technically the same.
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Jo
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10/04/05 06:55 AM
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Wes, whilst we are waiting then....
will you concede that body movement can look great with glowsticks (Kael)?
Jo.
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UsedCarOnlyFord
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10/04/05 07:02 AM
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NO JO!
Your feet must remain stationary at all times.
Otherwise it isnt Glowsticking... its Poi.
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mcp
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10/04/05 07:07 AM
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no it's not!
It's manipulating weights on the ends of strings! (String is a general term for a not-so-heavy link between the weight and your hands.)
silly ucof, get it right! Didn't you even READ that other thread?
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Richee
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10/04/05 07:09 AM
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I love them all:
http://www.easily-amused.org/video/chicagoGS/
light, :R
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POI THEO(R)IST
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mixinluv2u
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10/04/05 07:11 AM
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Written by: Jo
Wes, whilst we are waiting then....
will you concede that body movement can look great with glowsticks (Kael)?
Jo.
well, my honest opinion is that it looks kind of ugly. there's really no thoughts behind it, nor is it artistic.
for the most part its swaying and side-stepping back and forth while wrapping. those movements are both generic and unnecessary. those movement has NOTHING to do with the wraps he is doing. he would sway the same way no matter what wraps he is doing. there's no thought behind it, he just does it just because. i see that as a bad habit.
to me a good dancer knows where his/her body is and what its doing at all times. eliminates unnecessary movements and add variety at the same time. compliments whatever else he is doing with the rest of the body movement.
and in this case, Kael did not do so. he just sways and sidesteps without care.
other movements he done are the quick spins and the under the leg swing while turning. how is that different than another persons when they did a weave/turn or under the leg swing turn? those movements are pretty much "built in" in the moves themselves. there's specific timing where you need to turn to make it work, and that goes for everyone.
with kael's case, his turns looks awfully similar to Nick's Devilishly Yers, but only a worse. less graceful. he even admitted that's where he tried to copy these from.
so the answer is no, i do not think that's a good example of style via body movement with glowsticks. i think it looks like a wannabe poi-er who couldn't use fire.
Edited by mixinluv2u (10/04/05 07:12 AM)
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TheBovrilMonkey
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10/04/05 07:18 AM
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This is absurd, we're doing nothing but talking in circles.
Written by: mixinluv2u
and doesn't the fact that most of poi-ers havn't "done any of those moves," say something about the moves themselves? doesn't that make them qualify for more glowstring-oriented? since they were developed with a specific tool in mind - glowsticks on shoelaces...
No, it just means that we havn't seen them before. Yes, they were developed by people using glowsticks on strings, but that doesn't make them more any less valid for people who chose to learn to do them with juggling balls in socks.
Most of the moves I do with my poi were developed by people swinging around lumps of wood, that doesn't mean they're club oriented moves.
Written by: mixinluv2u
simply put, if there were a good amount of moves that were developed with glowstring-specifically in mind (without worrying about if heavier poi can do them the same, sometimes even try to go the opposite direction as heavier poi), if there were a solid culture, philosophy, community behind glowstring-specifically, doesn't that warrant its seperation?
It'd make you a community of people with a seperate style, but you're still using a toy that in my opinion is basically the same as what I play with, just with a few cosmetic differences.
It'd be like two tribes of people on different continants building huts - they'll use different materials so could end up with one made from buffalo hide and long branches and the other made of yak hide and shorter branches.
They were developed independantly and are different enough to be given different names depending on who you ask, but they're both still just somewhere to shelter.
Some people call it glowstringing, some people call it poi - does it really matter when the essence of both of them are swinging around weights on a line?
Written by: mixinluv2u
so the answer is no, i do not think that's a good example of style via body movement with glowsticks. i think it looks like a wannabe poi-er who couldn't use fire.
I'd be interested in seeing a video that shows what you consider to be the quintessence of glowstringing. Which video would you recommend as getting the closest to this ideal?
Sod it, I'm going to stop arguing this point, and just have a play instead, hopefully picking up some of the cool stuff I've seen on the glowsticking.com site. 
--------------------
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Edited by TheBovrilMonkey (10/04/05 07:24 AM)
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mixinluv2u
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10/04/05 07:28 AM
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let's take a martial art's weapon - rope dart (still weight on strings), as analogy.
i believe rope darts should be called rope darts (and not poi) because:
- rope dart moves are designed/developed specifically for the tool: to damage one's opponent in battle.
- rope darts and martial arts has different culture, philosophy, and community.
- when martial artists try to advance in their own art, they focus on different things than poi. (tricks to damage opponent vs artistic value).
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UsedCarOnlyFord
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10/04/05 07:51 AM
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You only use one rope dart at a time.
"when martial artists try to advance in their own art, they focus on different things than poi."
And ive never seen a martial artist use poi in martial arts.
They are too slow.
And Glowsticks dont do enough damage.
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mixinluv2u
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10/04/05 08:18 AM
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huh? I'm not saying glowsticking is a martial art. I'm saying glowsticking is different than poi, just like how rope dart is different than poi.
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Rev
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10/04/05 08:27 AM
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I (and others) are saying they are different.. but in the same class that you try to restrict them too.. we admit that your small subsect of glowstringing does not have many roots in common with poi.. but poi are poi.. period... if I decide (one of dantana's crew did ) to skateboard with poi, I would be skateboarding.. AND I would be doing poi.. the same as when you are glowstringing you are glowstringing AND using poi (or poi-ing if you will)
your arguemnt that glowstringing is different lies in the fact that you somehow think that you can classify type moves.. and there are no type moves.. any poi (sock, fire, or glowstring) is a token of the type poi.. and what works for one works for all..
all this nonsense about medium only moves is ridiculous because the only point being made is that you don't have to have as much skill with that medium to do that move.. not that it is inherent to that medium only..
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UsedCarOnlyFord
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10/04/05 08:28 AM
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Glowsticking isnt different from poi though.
Theres a good discussion going on in the Discussion forum you should read.
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KaelGotRice
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10/04/05 08:33 AM
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Maybe I'd do more than sway back and forth and turn sloppily if I had more than 5 feet of spinning room wes?
Just a point. I'm merely listening to you guys. I'm back to practicing.
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To do: Working on Firedrums 08 video
Some things I missed recording - Yuta looking confused after we asked him to teach us "Hadouken"
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mixinluv2u
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10/04/05 08:33 AM
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Written by: Unfortunatly Can Obtain Fruit
Glowsticking isnt different from poi though.
Theres a good discussion going on in the Discussion forum you should read.
you mean the thread i started?
and i'm trying to explain how it IS different by making an analogy with rope dart.
- rope dart moves are designed/developed specifically for the tool: to damage one's opponent in battle. much like the moves developed/designed specifically for glowsticks on shoelaces: to glowstring.
- rope darts and martial arts has different culture, philosophy, and community. much like glowstringing and raves.
- when martial artists try to advance in their own art, they focus on different things than poi. (tricks to damage opponent vs artistic value). like how glowstringers focus on glowstring-oriented moves, heavy emphasis on developing style via combo construction, etc
all the above points are very non-poi, and very glowstring. so how can you say it's the same?
Edited by mixinluv2u (10/04/05 08:37 AM)
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UsedCarOnlyFord
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10/04/05 08:38 AM
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"you mean the thread i started? "
Yes.
I mean the thread you started.
Thought you understand that and go 
Bloody Yanks <--(which denotes a joke)
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Rev
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10/04/05 08:51 AM
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rope dart makes use of the medium...
poi makes use of the medium..
your form of glowstringing limits to only certain uses of the medium..
this is alike again how?
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Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
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Rev
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10/04/05 08:55 AM
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let me add.. that I forgot how one poi wouldnt be spinning poi.. nor 3 nor 4 because only two poi is poi.. LOL
no I think you should watch more rope dart wes.. perhaps arashi could help you with that.. they use lots of poi moves.. but they use it to martial end.. which is *gasp* how the maori used it.. but they also (like the asian cultures) used it in dance.. those couldnt possibly be the same tools.. nor the same motions.. could they?
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More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
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mixinluv2u
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10/04/05 08:57 AM
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rope darts also limits uses of the medium. don't martial artists believe in less wasted movements? you only create more opening for your opponent if you don't "limit your use."
maybe poi doesn't limit anything. but that's poi.
and i guess that's another major difference in philosophy of poi and glowstringing.
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Rev
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10/04/05 09:18 AM
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they use rope dart for martial arts and in art.. and they do not classify them as rope dart 1 and rope dart 2... so no... they don't limit.. they make the use of their tool..
some people stress certain factors.. like for instance martial motions only.. but again.. these are not a seperate form of ropedart.. its still just rope dart.. just like though your form of glowstringing stresses certain moves, it is glowstringing just as much as anything else is glowstringing.. and likewise poi..
the moves are a manifestation of the medium... not a requirement or stupulation of it..
edit: I would like to also point out that there are forms of dance that stress only martial components.. but these are still all the same thing..
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More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
Edited by Rev (10/04/05 09:19 AM)
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MikeIcon
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10/04/05 09:18 AM
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I dont see how there can be wasted movement. Its dance, art, expression of self. IMO saying there are wasted movements is putting a "limit" on things.
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Rev
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10/04/05 09:20 AM
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amen brother icon..
making the most of your tool is making the most of your tool.. ie no limits.. you can't limit and say that you are stressing what the tool can do..
--------------------
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
Edited by Rev (10/04/05 09:21 AM)
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mixinluv2u
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10/04/05 10:01 AM
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let's look at dance then. your tool is your body. but there are many people "putting limit" on things. ballet dancers, jazz, etc, all have "limit" and specific movesets. that doesn't make them worser dancers than those that practice everything. in fact, most of the time specialization yields more focused and better dancers in their respected fields.
i'll agree that dance is an expression. so what if i say glowstringing is an expression of it's relation to freehand glowsticking and the rave cultural roots. and that in my vision i wish all glowstringers help me express this point more clearly by move away from poi roots, and make it more distinct. would that work?
a lot of times less and more.
Edited by mixinluv2u (10/04/05 10:02 AM)
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Jo
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10/04/05 10:14 AM
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"and that in my vision i wish all glowstringers help me express this point more clearly by move away from poi roots, and make it more distinct. would that work?"
I'm not convinced it would work for -everybody- in your community Wes.
'Glowsticking moves, with poi.' would be a better topic for here though imo - and a well intentioned topic to boot...
Jo.
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Edited by Jo (10/04/05 10:19 AM)
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mixinluv2u
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10/04/05 10:22 AM
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and it doesn't have to work for "everybody."
it worked for those that wanted to follow it, and that's good enough for me. =)
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