Written fire safety test?

so there are 2 friends of mine in vegas who want to create a fire troupe and want me to be part of it. i'd love to be part of it and have a group to practice with again. the problem is there are differing approaches to fire spinning within our group...

last night there was an underground desert party that we were all at. since it was way outside of town in the canyons, it was fairly windy. one of the guys is completely reckless in general with his attitude towards spinning. it was risky enough to be doing poi and staff, but he decided to do some Fire Breathing as well. we were out in the desert, 30 miles at least from the nearest town, tons of dry brush around. he didn't have any saftey precautions set up, nothing. and he's breathing fire with the wind at like 15-20 mph. he ended up getting blowback, and the fire wrapped around the back of his head. he didn't even notice. when i told him about it, his response was "well did it look cool?"

i've lectured him dozens of times about fire safety, and he never listens. he has some good talent, but he spins because he wants to look cool. he has no interest in promoting the art, only himself. he doesn't care about safety issues whatsoever.

my close friend who is organizing the troupe and was the one who asked me to be part of it feels the same about this other guy's recklessness. but it's his best friend so i know he's gonna be reluctant to take much action about it. i told him last night that if this other guy continues to be careless about it, i won't be part of the troupe.

i know it's the right decision, no question. but what i was thinking about was do you guys think that it would be a good idea to have a fire safety test for your troupe. by that i mean, if you're starting your own troupe and ask people to join or other people ask to join, do you think it would be a good idea to create a fire safety test that each person would have to study for and pass before being able to join your troupe?

i know it won't necessarily stop people from not being safe, and you should have other rules related to that, but this way you know that each person at least has the information necessary in critical situations.

what's your guys' opinions?

Don't go there this a bad thing to be involed in will he look cool if he losses half his lung? on stage performing.

Problem with people / society is your guilty by association

Didn't arristotle Quote
"you learn more about someone in a hour of play then a lifetime of discussion"

Puk waiver (i could of said plato but he plagerised arristotle all the time).

So how are you going to write a safety test? And should we share it with the fire community at large so that maybe all troupes have this option available?

Here are some things to brainstorm over:

*When to use a wet towel vs. a fire extinguisher
*Distance from a fuel can that is safe for fire.

i think it's a really good idea. If nothing esle it shows potential members that you are serious about saftey and that if they're going to join then messing around with fire and endangering people isn't what you consider a joke.

what would you do if they failed the test? would you give them the chance to do it again? we had to do a similar test before we could work in the workshop at guildhall, and they basically told us the answers first - cos it's more important to know about safety than to prove you're clever.

Maybe you would be better off with a Fire Safety Contract. Something where people are taught all the safety rules, then asked to sign to say that they understand them and will abide by them. If you want you could test that they know the rules, then if they flout the rules you then have a right to ask them to leave.

I prefer Skuld's idea.

Personally, I won't allow someone to perform at a gig I'm organizing if they don't follow baic safety measures....and I won't perform with a group if they appear unsafe.

I've got a reputation for being very safety aware, and have a set of minimum safety requirements I use when I pull together a gig. I'm a hard a$$ when it comes to safety at one of my gigs, but it will reflect on me if someone doesn't spin safely.

I'm not always the one in charge, or organizing the gig...and in situations like that, I evaluate what safety measures are in place. If I don't feel enough is being done, then I approach the person who is in charge, and ask if we can do more. Usually, they are approachable. If they aren't, then I won't spin.

In your case, pounce, I'd think long and hard about spinning with them. IT sounds like your Vanity Man will get a lesson in humility one of these days, and it will be a painful one. No one is exempt from the basic safety measures...no one, no matter how good they are. Unless everyone in your group agrees to use basic safety requirements, then I wouldn't spin, but that's just me. If the guy in charge can't see the importance of that, and lets his friendship with Vanity Boy jade him, then he needs a kick in the pants.

My opinionated 2 cents

ya i totally agree. i definately will not associate myself with them if safety is not a first priority.

a safety contract sounds like a great idea. as far as the test goes, i would start first by teaching any new person about safety: show them articles on this site, explain safety precautions, refer them to various materials. and then i'd give them the chance to take the test. if they fail, then i probably would give them another chance to study and take it again. but i wouldn't allow anyone to spin fire with me/my troupe without passing the test first.

as far as what would go into the test, i think getting suggestions from this community would be preferable. i'm sure there are plenty of good questions/scenarios that you all could come up with. and i'd be more than happy to put it all together and then make it available to HOP. heck, if malcolm feels it's a good idea, maybe it could even be included in the articles section.

so send me your ideas, questions, scenarios, whatever you think should be included. you can post it here or send me a PM. i'll work on it and write up a draft, and probably post it back up to get some feedback.

I think safety always comes first.

Always.

Which is why I was slightly confused a HOPper when they told me not to smoke near the paraffin container.
We all know the flash point of paraffin is low enough, so that you have to hold a light near to it for a few seconds for it to warm up enough to be able to ignite.
A ciggerette is not nearly hot enough to raise the temperature substansially enough for the paraffin to ignite. If a ciggie was droped into the paraffin, the cigerette would go out. This is why you *can* put out your wicks by dunking them in paraffin.
I personally have *never* seen the fumes from paraffin ingite the conatiner of paraffin, even from staffs or poi.

So what did I do wrong?

Ive also seen it done dangerously once too.

It was ucof Chris around my house.

Tut Tut.

When NYC came to Sheffield he was a little alarmed at how I wasn't concerned at being near my fuel with lit wicks.

Apparently the fuel they use in America is more volatile (white gas?) than the paraffin I was using.

Given that some people use fuel that is more explosive than paraffin it's a good idea to get into the habit of not approaching fuel comtainers with lit poi or whilst smoking.

ya, white gas is definately more volatile. i keep my fuel in an old paint can, and i always close the lid immediately after soaking my wicks. i sometimes use lamp oil which wouldn't be as dangerous to go near with lit wicks, but i tend to use white gas more often. you never really know what fuel people use out here cause it varies with the different people i've spun with. so regardless, i make sure to keep lit wicks/cigarettes/etc. away from where the fuel is sitting.

It's been at the back of my mind that the day will surely come when someone turns up at a poi meet with a container of petrol.

A recent post in the poi moves section by a newbie who's been using petrol, not knowing how dangerous it is, has made this scenario seem very plausible.

Of course if anyone happens to be nearby with lit poi then people are going to really get hurt.

Which is more good reason to stay away from other peoples fuel, and to not assume that everyones using paraffin.

That is indeed a very valid point my friend,
I however have never seen anyone in London use anything apart from paraffin.

The person I am referring to was opening their bottle of paraffin (with the cardboard seal still intact so i know it was paraffin and not simply a refilled container)

Remember kids....

just an update for ya...

i brought the idea up with my troupe, and the guy who has been organizing it thought it was a really good idea. so we are currently reading up on everything we can, and are going to being composing the test shortly. i still would love any input anyone would like to send our way, and i will post it up once we are finished for others to give us some feedback.

it all depends on what mix you have . i use 50% white gas (parrifin) and 50% lamp oil , so nothing is going to go wrong there!