"ultimate move"?

i was reading the gawd damn thread and nomads post got me thinking
i used to read afew juggling message boards and when people where saying a really good trick there are many juggling moves which are insanly hard like for instance 5 ball mills mess which anyone who knows about juggling will know if practicaly impossible. its theses moves that are used when exagerating stuff. (does that make any sence to any one but me?)

what would you say are the "ultimate" poi and staff moves which people have as there goal to learn?
im not saying poi are easy but would you say it is more style that sets apart different skills and less about indevidual move difficulty?

I'd say poi as we are doing it now being quite "new" the "ultimate move" definitely has not been invented yet... but that's just my opinion...
as for my ultimate move, except for that BTB stuff i only get every once in a while for longer than a minute... the one I dream of is butterfly ==> double throw==> double catch ==> reverse butterfly ... because dreams is what keep us alive

shine on
Cassandra

ohh ohh.. (done in a John Stewart from Half Baked manerism)

How about

quote:

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the one I dream of is butterfly ==> double throw==> double catch ==> reverse
butterfly ...

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BTB!

heheh sorry...

wulff

Now that I've got the btb stuff down (still working on all the possible turns from btw fwd weave to btb rvs weave and vice versa...), I'd say the ultimate move is doing weaves with 2 chains in each hand. One of the guys at Anthelion weaves with 2 chains in one hand already... See, that's what gets me going

Nomad

yes I am thinking 4 poi moves are going to be the wave of "hard moves" to come along...I better start my practicing soon!!!

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fe fi foo fun

I think an ultimate move for Poi or Staff would have to be an unattainable one, like moving them with your mind!!!

Imagine doing a BTB eave with five poi all at the same time while your arms are stuck in a straightjacket.

But maybe I've just had too much cofee today...

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Charles (INFERNO)

newdolbel@hotmail.com
http://juggling.co.nz

ultimate move?

btb 5-beat and turning it!
7-beat weave (non wrap)
6-beat corkscrew (non wrap)

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[]Dhuong-Vu Truong
==== []Dhunky ====

Ultimate staff move = a doubles move definitely.

Something I can't do yet obviously. But it'd have to be something that only I can do. There's so much that these fellows can do and I can't. Ultimate suggests that they can't do it either.

Wait 'til the international gathering and we'll see then.

Don't hold your breath though....

ok, i have seen some, at least what i consider ultimate moves, it was on PBS of all channels, they had a special on the Shaolin Monks, now these guys are increidbly nasty, and can do anyhting with everyhting, and one of the things they did, was poi, and to top it off, they chains looked to be about 8-10 feet long, and the guy was still spinning em faster than i have ever seen. He at one point, sat donw on the ground, feet out straight in front of him, and started bouncing, and was able to spin one of the chains underneath himself at each bounce, and the other over his head, and that was incredibly impressive, and when i tried it, i was only able to jerk my shoulder up and down, and make a total ass of myself, but that wasnt even the most impressive, at one he ran forward, and jumped, and while in t he air, he lay down so he was horizontal, did a 360, one poi spinning over him, the other below him, and then landed on his feet. Absolutely incredible, and not really an actual move, but still incredible...
oh, and they did crazy stuff with a three-section staff, but thats another story...

I don't think there is one for me. If I focus on that "goal" move then I lose sight of all the other possibilites. So I practice with what feels right, and experiment with things until they feel right and then keep going. I sleep on it and invent. For me (being the showperson) it isn't about ultimate techincal anything, but about the ultimate reaction from an audience....nothing but the sound of wind and crickets chirping until broken by thunderous applause. Now that is a goal!
And btw Cass, looking at your poi when in butterfly and relating release times to the number positions on a clock....release them when the right would be at the 5 and the left would be at the 7. Cross your wrists and catch them (left at the 3 and right at the 9). This will create a slight stall, uncross your wrists and go into your rbfly. If you don't hit them at just the right point they will fly away. I am still working on it!

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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

http://www.pyromorph.com

[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 21 December 2001).]

ultimate move right here...

remember when daffy duck drank all that nitroglycerine and had that act he could only do once when he blew up?

EXPLODING STAFF it's like speed, but in reverse, once you get it to so many rpm's (this can work for poi too) it just BOOM in the middle of a weave! YAH!

AND WHEN YER REINCARNATED... DO IT BTB!

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~ Tiger, Tiger, burning bright... ~

i agree with Whiffle Squeek, shaolin monks " wheel of life" video is well worth looking at.! some pretty impressive stuff they can do with poi, staff, meteors etc.. check it out for your selves, good story to it too!
pk

Okay.....

This is one I would love to do, but I think you would need the strength of an Olympic gymnast.

Basically, imagine a one handed butterfly, then going in to a one handed handstand, with your legs in the splits. Then swing your one handed butterfly through your legs from front to back.

I am not sure if it is entirely possible. I think you might over balance, but wow it would look cool

Love and Light

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~*~ Katinca ~*~

Whiffle Squeek, this 8 to 10 foot poi you speak of, it has a name. It is called chain whip. Two of my friends do it and it looks cool as hell when it's on fire. Fittingly enough, one friend taught the other, and he did study Shaolin Kung fu for a long time.

As for an "ultimate move"...
I kind of hope that no one ever finds one. Perfection has an inheirant flaw, that is that perfection is the end. There is no place to go from perfection other than to imperfection. William S. Burrows once wrote that "The instant you cease to grow you begin to die". The thing that keeps me so interested in spinning fire is the fact that I keep learning and growing as I go along (exept for my hair, I seem to keep singing that). It is the feeling of accomplishment when I learn something new that drives me to do more. I would kind of like to keep my illusion that there is no "ultimate" anything, and that there is no end to the growth process.

But then that's just me.

Cheers

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If you love something, set it on fire.

[This message has been edited by SickpuPpy (edited 21 December 2001).]

Of course DaVinci wrote that "Art is never finished, only abandoned".

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If you love something, set it on fire.

as for juggling anyway there can never be an ultimate move as you can always just add another ball.
there for there is an infinate number of juggling tricks.
but for poi (asuming you limit the number of poi and dont include the "10 poi in each hand 5 beat weave") surely there is a limited number of moves but with poi being a newwer thing as said before that move probably doesn't exist now.
there for with poi its alot more about style and how you link the move together.

Pele, hun... I need to print that out and practice what you describe... I don't quite understand what you mean ... will practice over my Xmas vacation

i'd been thinking about this thread yesterday evening and I think you could either say like Charles (is it really only cofee you drink, Charles ) that the ultimate move is no-move, just like some people say the ultimate music is silence... or you could say it is endless ... either way, I can only hope to continue enjoying the way rather than achieveing the goal and never get *really* bored...

shine on
Cassandra

five ball mills mess in juggling as the ultimate?

nonsense I'm afraid, I'm a juggler and a fire performer and recently myself and friends have been trying 5 ball mills mess with success, one friend nearly has it solid, and... I've seen it done with 5 clubs. And after five ball mills what then? 6 ball, 7 ball, 8 ball etc.

The point is that when you reach the hardest thing, you or some one else will come up with the next 'ultimate' move. And these will only ever be in one style. In juggling you can do 7 balls and do a trick with 3 that is as hard but in a different style.

The Chinese name for the chain whip is Tchut Jit Bin. I use meteor hammer and base my moves on three section staff (Sarm Jit Kwan) moves I learned in Kung-fu. Never got as far as the whip, though.
Maximus

I dream of being on the top of a really high poll thing and using stupidly long poi. Ha, that'll show'em I think, just before falling off. Damn!

I'm thinking of adapting Poi and staff in a very clever but not fully thought out way. It'll be good if it works but it'll kill me if it doesn't.

And watch this space for the flying suit. HAHA, That'll show 'em.