#105384 - 17/10/03 12:51 AM
music & drugs
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playing the days away
Registered: 19/08/03
Loc: The Middle lands
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ok serious debate bout serious subject involving music and substances... In the past 100 years or so (and much longer) there's been some great music created by various folks who were "off their t1ts" to put it mildly. Now does anyone think that and of the various substance influenced musicians a) created such great music because of the drugs b) their music/inspiration was only 'helped along' by the drugs c) didn't need them to create what they did but took them anyway or d) shouldnt have taken them to begin with And to top it off, can anyone think of any musicians who were well into their mind expansion but when they stopped they continued to make great music?! Feel free to discuss any or all points...you may end up helping me out with this one!! p.s. this isn't meant to be a 'pro' or 'anti' dedate. ![[peace]](graemlins/peace.gif) PEACE!!
_________________________
Becoming a Dad is the best feeling in the world  Watching them grow teaches you a whole new type of love 
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#105385 - 17/10/03 01:14 AM
Re: music & drugs
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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i'd like to nominate kyuss for option a, tool for option b, jimi hendrix for option c and billie holiday for option d.
there are obviously loads of examples for each category but the above are some of my favourite artists so they came to mind first.
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#105386 - 17/10/03 02:11 AM
Re: music & drugs
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Sponge
Registered: 21/09/03
Loc: Stevenage
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The Chilli's have been doing well since their scag but if anyone's heard of Live, the guy thinks he's creative, I like their old stuff but now they're getting carried away on something which makes them gods? Some guys I know have made they're best songs off their pickle now they're all straight they're still doing well
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Monkeys monkeys and bananas
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#105387 - 17/10/03 04:10 AM
Re: music & drugs
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Great balls of fire
Registered: 28/07/03
Loc: Tunbridge Wells, Kent
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i'd have to go for "b) their music/inspiration was only 'helped along' by the drugs"
and that's not always true...
generally art and artists benefit when they see different perspectives and life from other angles - drugs can do that for ya, tho ya certainly don't Need them it does work eh
Poor Sid Barrett.
_________________________
I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
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#105388 - 17/10/03 08:57 PM
Re: music & drugs
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old hand
Registered: 29/05/03
Loc: In a test pit, Mackay
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What sort of drugs actually increase creativity? One of my mates likes to play around with Cubase while out of his tiny little mind on various substances. We don't have the heart to tell him that his "compositions" are, infact, a big pile of poo and kind of sound like they were made by a man trying to work a computer while fending off the ten foot spiders that were after him. Maybe they become a work of genius when you're stoned in the freaky same way that all drunks can understand each other?
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There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.
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#105389 - 17/10/03 08:57 PM
Re: music & drugs
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Sunburnt Bournda Beach Bum
Registered: 25/04/03
Loc: A Melbourne boy through and th...
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Bill Hicks once said something that has stuck with me and i truley beleive to be true "If u dont think drugs have done good things for us then do me a favour. Go home tonight and take all your albums, all your tapes and all your cd's and BURN THEM. Coz u know what, the musicians, who created all that great music that has inhanced your lives for the past year..........reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllll f..kin high on drugs" not too bad for a dude who was so high on drugs himslef to know his own name cheers ![[beer]](graemlins/beerchug.gif)
_________________________
Look to the moon, look to the stars, and if you still can't find happyness...find a bar!!!
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#105390 - 18/10/03 03:40 AM
Re: music & drugs
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 28/08/02
Loc: sheffield
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There is a widespread belief that much creativity in music is fuelled by drugs.
One reason is that a lot of musicians are notorious for their drug use; however, bear in mind that it is always going to be the extreme ones who recieve media attention, many highly creative musicians do not use drugs and don't recieve as much media attention because they tend not to end up being arrested for trashing hotels, smuggling substances, overdosing etc.
Of the creative ones who do use drugs, it would be wrong to attribute their creativity to the drugs simply because of the association.
For example, take hospitals; they are always full of sick people- we don't assume from this that hospitals make you sick. There is another explanation i.e. sick people go to hospitals. Association alone doesn't establish a causal connection.
Similarly, with creative musicians; if it was the case that a majority of them were drug users, we can't conclude that drugs cause their creativity. It could be the case that they take drugs simply because the music industry itself is saturated with drugs, or maybe creative individuals are more likely to have self esteem issues which they try to mask by taking drugs.
There are many instances of creative individuals who do not take drugs, many instances of drug taking artists who find that when they quit drugs, not only does their life as a whole improve, but that they become more creative. Also, many examples of headlines along the line of 'My Drugs Hell...' by artists who find their original rose tinted view of the drug scene doesn't last as long as they had hoped.
_________________________
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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#105391 - 18/10/03 04:32 AM
Re: music & drugs
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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another reason for this widespread belief dave is that many musicians claim that some kinds of drugs enhance their creativity. it is more than just assumption on our parts and its definitely not just bill hicks kicking up dust. i don't see why you want to deny this - there are drugs that enhance sports performance and i know you're aware of drugs that enhance perception and reaction times. why is it so hard to believe that some drugs might have an effect on creativity? i know that, for me, there are now some drugs i pretty much treat solely as creative-performance enhancers rather than just something i take at parties to change my perceptions. some musicians have even claimed that drugs can influence their whole attitude towards their instrument (eg. danny carey). quote:
There are many instances of creative individuals who do not take drugs, many instances of drug taking artists who find that when they quit drugs, not only does their life as a whole improve, but that they become more creative.
![[umm]](graemlins/umm.gif) i'm hugely sceptipcal of this statement.
i personally consider there to be a difference between recreational drug use and prolonged drug abuse.
do you have a few examples of musicians who have given up recreational drug use (*not* overcome an addiction or dependency problem) and have since become more creative?
eera - for creativity enhancing drugs look up some info on tim leary's discovery and follow it up with a quick review of the works of mr shulgin.
a question - is your mate a good musician when he's not smashed? without meaning to sound rude, could it be that he's just not very good at making electronic music at all...?
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#105392 - 20/10/03 02:47 AM
Re: music & drugs
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old hand
Registered: 10/01/03
Loc: under the fairie wheel
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janes addiction would have to be one of a few bands that was very heavey into there hammer and other drugs
you can see it in the beutiful lyrics of perrie ferral
and now that they have reformed and are clean(er?) there music is still just as good perrie my have lost a little of what he had in his way of intracting with the crowds but they still make great music
_________________________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, and screaming "WOO-HOO What a ride!"
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#105393 - 20/10/03 03:28 AM
Re: music & drugs
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Lord Ballchain
Registered: 21/08/01
Loc: Austin, Texas
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drugs for actors, drugs for writers, drugs for musicians, drugs for scientist, drugs for painters, drugs for politicians, drugs for fire performers, oh my!
lots of people from all walks of life use drugs, lots of from all walks of life don't. more from the liberal side do, more from the conservative side don't. Musicians tend to be more liberal.
some people handle their drugs, some don't. some quit, some use forever, others never do. some people have always done drugs and some always will. drugs will never go away because what they provide is too valuable (on many levels), but they will never become fully mainstream, because what they do is too dangerous (on many levels).
the world is a beautiful place wether you do or don't. I don't care if a person is totally sober or in another universe if I like his/her music. I'm sure most modern muscicians I like have done drugs at some point in their life, and that music has evolved in a certain direction because of this. I'd be willing to bet many of my favorite authors and artists have too.
Does it matter?
not to me.
_________________________
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
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#105395 - 20/10/03 10:56 AM
Re: music & drugs
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member
Registered: 20/10/03
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never mind musicians go raving - never before has such unique creativity been fueled by mind altering substances! u can stand at a bar and look on in amusement, and they think they are sooo cool... nothing a good crack round the ear with a staff wouldnt solve!
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#105396 - 20/10/03 06:07 PM
Re: music & drugs
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Diamond In The Rough
Registered: 30/06/02
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
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Artists have been 'creating under the influence' for much longer. Samuel Taylor Coleridge was a marijuana fiend, Mozart enjoyed an occasional puff of Opium, Hemmingway was an alcoholic, and Botticelli's "Birth of Venus" was reportedly done under the influence of some kind of analgesic painkiller.
_________________________
Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.
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#105397 - 21/10/03 01:01 AM
Re: music & drugs
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member
Registered: 05/09/02
Loc: Bath, UK
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Drugs are for the weak.
Most musicians I know who compose on drugs make music that you NEED drugs to appreciate.
The best musicians I know don't touch drugs.
Dunno about famous musicians, I don't know how they use drugs.
Gah, I wish people would stop trying to justify drugs.
If you can't deal with the day on your own, smoke a cigarette.
If you can't relax in a social situation, drink alocohol.
etc, etc.
_________________________
Magnus... pay it forward
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#105400 - 21/10/03 02:23 AM
Re: music & drugs
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member
Registered: 05/09/02
Loc: Bath, UK
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On the other hand I do tend to believe that I'm right about everything.
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Magnus... pay it forward
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#105402 - 21/10/03 02:51 AM
Re: music & drugs
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member
Registered: 15/01/03
Loc: india
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DRUGS AND MUSIC, WHAT A COMBINATION I THINK IN THE EARLY 60S WHEN THE HIPPIES ORIGINATED , THE HARD ROCK, THE METALS, THE WOODSTOCK, AND THE DRUGS TOOK PLACE IN THE MUSIC WORLD, THE FRUSTRATION, THE POWER YOU CAN SAY FALSE POWER, TO SHOW THE WORLD, MADE TO BECOME DRUG ADDICTS,BUT THEY GAVE SOME OF THE FIUNEST TUNES , SONGS EVER CREATED BY NON DRUG ADDICTS,,I KNOW FAMOUS MUSICIANS IN INDIA DRINKS ALCOHOL, AND BECOME WORLD FAMOUS, BUT DRUGS NO, NEVER
LIVE LIFE HAPPILY,
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#105404 - 21/10/03 03:45 AM
Re: music & drugs
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busy-tofu!
Registered: 16/07/03
Loc: montreal: bagel capital
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Hmm, it is a big debate. I beleive that the artists who created under the influence of drugs couldn't've produced the same results if they weren't under the influence of... I'm not saying they wouldn't be able to make good music without, just that it would be different. One example given above is the feeling of intemacy with one's instrument. Sometime my violin is molded in my hand, sometime my guitar sings to me, and sometimes my bass shakes me ![[Love]](graemlins/ubblove.gif) -but these moments (for me) occur more often when I am not using drugs. Drugs, I find, will make me loose on trying any and everything with my music (wether it sounds good or bad is another story)- the results of taking drugs while performing or creating definately affects the final product. On account of professional musicians, a lot of them do use drugs, or maybe did use drugs. The great names of rock are all tainted with drugs, though there are some exceptions. One of my favorites is Frank Zappa, who in his days of music not only didn't touch any drugs, but refused to work with people who did. Would not taking drugs also affects the music you might make? And there are others who are the opposite, wether they needed the drugs to create or wether they prefered, I guess we'll never know.
_________________________
there is no better way to say I love you than with the gift of a spatula!
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#105405 - 21/10/03 03:50 AM
Re: music & drugs
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member
Registered: 05/09/02
Loc: Bath, UK
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Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Sounds to me like the original poster is thinking of taking drugs to 'enhance' their creativity. Is that the case, Custom Bug? As Eera points out, drugs more likely just make you think your creativity is improved, whereas actually you just churn out the sort of dross that you need drugs to appreciate. I remember a couple of years ago some guy on LSD showing me a picture he had drawn, that looked like something you'd see on the wall in a nursery school. Any discussion like this is bound to end up pro or anti. What if X drugs DID help musician Y write their bestselling album; surely that implies they are not really a musical genius. Or what if musician Z hadn't overdosed and died halfway through their greatest ever work? Seems pretty anti to me, either way. Also, I think it's drug user's attitudes towards themselves that are prejudiced and patently wrong, and I put that down to the drugs ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
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Magnus... pay it forward
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#105406 - 21/10/03 04:18 AM
Re: music & drugs
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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okay, so what you're saying is people only take drugs because they are weak and to aid them with their social shortcomings. and, due to the effect of the drugs they then develop a 'prejudiced and patently wrong attitude' towards their reasons for taking any particular drug? and as far as your opinion of 'some guy on lsd' that showed you a picture - he probably wasn't an artist! and even if he was, lsd doesn't *give* a person creativity, it can just as well inhibit it as it can enhance it. "What if X drugs DID help musician Y write their bestselling album; surely that implies they are not really a musical genius." drugs don't write music - people do! i'm not saying there are no downsides to drug use (if you read my original post you'll see i give an example of a band/musician i love for each of the categories in the first post) but i think using them to enhance a creative process is one of the most respectible forms of recreational drug use. "what if musician Z hadn't overdosed and died halfway through their greatest ever work?" if you can find one example of where a good musician has died from use of drugs as a creative aid - not from an overdose of heroin, coke, crack due to an addiction (which usually occurs miles away from a studio and between albums) - i'll buy you a cake
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#105408 - 21/10/03 05:06 AM
Re: music & drugs
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Great balls of fire
Registered: 28/07/03
Loc: Tunbridge Wells, Kent
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quote:
Originally posted by Magnus:
Drugs are for the weak.
...
If you can't deal with the day on your own, smoke a cigarette.
If you can't relax in a social situation, drink alocohol.
Can ya spell hypocritical?
This is very narrowminded and indeed in many ways awful thing to say - if you find the day hard smoke?!?!?! are you kidding? Nicotene is one of the most powerful and most harmful drugs known to man!!!!!
If you don't understand why many creative people took drugs - then please go and find out - do not simply dismiss it.
So yes, I totally disagree with magnus because by seperating two VERY harmful drugs (alcohol and nicotene) from the others his view is skewed beyond use.
_________________________
I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
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#105409 - 21/10/03 05:36 AM
Re: music & drugs
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member
Registered: 05/09/02
Loc: Bath, UK
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blah blah blah
If you can't find warm and fuzzy feelings inside yourself, take ecstacy.
If you can't stay awake, drink coffee.
If you can't dance all night, try speed.
If you can't access your sixth circuit brain functions on your own, take shrooms or LSD.
Do you see what I'm getting at? The decision to take drugs is always due to wrong thought or 'laziness'.
_________________________
Magnus... pay it forward
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#105410 - 21/10/03 05:42 AM
Re: music & drugs
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member
Registered: 05/09/02
Loc: Bath, UK
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frostypaw, sorry, my fault - you've misinterpreted.
My point is that people CAN get through the day (to use, admittedly not the best example) without a cigarette. But from smokers you hear things like "it relaxes me" "I get tense at work but I'm alright after my fag break" etc, when a five minute walk round the block would work just as well without the expensive and harmful nicotine addiction.
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Magnus... pay it forward
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#105411 - 21/10/03 08:53 AM
Re: music & drugs
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Great balls of fire
Registered: 28/07/03
Loc: Tunbridge Wells, Kent
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that's a lot more fair to say - i'd hazzard a guess here that you've not tried these substances to know right?
_________________________
I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
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#105412 - 21/10/03 10:27 AM
Re: music & drugs
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member
Registered: 05/09/02
Loc: Bath, UK
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to be fair, I haven't, but I've been in close proximity to people who have.
_________________________
Magnus... pay it forward
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#105413 - 21/10/03 11:18 AM
Re: music & drugs
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member
Registered: 08/11/02
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada.
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heh nicotine isn't that bad of a drug. It actually has some health benefits in moderation. The reasons cigarettes have such a bad rep is because they are consumed in such a stupidly large amount that they cause damage. Marijuana is worse per gram for your body to inhale then most forms of tobacco.
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