UK ID cards

UK id card

What is your opinion what do you have against them and why

I personally cant wait for them to become law. All this stuff about big brother is watching us. So What I don’t care he can come watch me take a dump for all I care
If I'm not doing any thing wrong why should I be bothered

Civil liberties my bum what is the difference going to be we already get issued with a NI number at 16

And if it stops some snotty chav using my debit card to buy stuff with when he nicks my wallet or the thieving postie with my pin number.

a card that says I am me and nobody else sounds good to me.
Ok they need to work on the biometric info a bit more but hey it will come with time

I don't have too many problems with them in general, but I really object to having to buy the damned things.

If the government want to make it mandatory to have one, they should at least give them to us.

Mandatory Cards: Over £100 cost. You can be arrested for not having one (under proposed legislation). I think that's immoral and possibly illegal. I don't want to be forced to expend £100 on something which I can already do with my passport.

The reasons for the cards: Terrorism and Identity Fraud are the two main ones.

Against terrorism, I'm not sure what they will do to help. I don't see how someone having to prove their name makes them any less likely to commit a terrorist act.

"Yeah, sure. I'm Joe Bloggs, lived in Fairfax all my life. That's who I am alright. I can prove it, check out this neat identity card. Have you seen this bomb in my bag?"

Identity Fraud mostly occurs when people are lazy or daft. People not shredding their documents or cards. People not reporting stolen cards the minute they notice them missing. People using predictable PIN numbers (The Independent ran a list of the 10 most common PIN numbers, and said "If this is your PIN then for the love of god, CHANGE it") and people writing their PIN on a piece of paper inside their wallet. Identity cards are unecessary if people just followed the little handbook they get when issued with a credit card.

Also, I'm worried about the possible security breaches. If the cards go ahead as planned (hopefully not) then there will have to be a central network that has a database of everyone who has one. This database would have to be accessible from everywhere you can use the cards, from the internet to the local garage. If a cracker breaks into there, then they will have the personal information on everyone in the country.

Your NI card is not the same. You don't use it to buy things in stores. You don't use it to top up your phone. You don't use it to buy thing online. All you ever really use it for is for job applications. The new ID cards are combination Passport and Credit Card.

Plus, there are people turning out fake passports and driving licenses every day. They can make realistic copies of existing forms of ID. Why then should ID cards be any safer? They can be faked. Anything can be faked. And you can do a lot more damage with a new ID card than you can with either a passport or credit card or driving license.

I don't mind ID cards. I've had one since I was 15, and it cost me less than 10 quid.

In Germany it's law that you're always able to identify yourself, and I don't mind that. Some of the driving licences I've seen here have no picture and addresses 20 years out of date because you have to get a new licence in Wales and can't just have an official person put a new address sticker in, what's the point? And you can use them as a proof of ID for some things.

It would also help getting a better idea of who lives where. It took me a year to hear back from the electoral roll when I "applied" to be on it, and as far as I know they are the only place I'm officially registered with. Now I've met people who didn't register anywhere because of having debts and not wanting to be found, and it worked completely fine for them. Having a central registry and the obligation to have an id card might improve things a lot. Not sure if you get the registry thing with the cards, but back at home whenever you move you have to register for the new address.

I really don't get what people are "big brother"ing about again. As I said in the speed camera post, you have cctv everywhere already, and you're most likely on the electoral roll, registered with a bank and have tons of little chipcards with your name and photo in your wallet anyways.

One thing mentioned with these is that your name, address, and all other details would be readable on the card.. As well as forging cards, there could very easily be an issue with forging the card readers- which could actually increase fraud in things like phone/internet sales.

I can see this just being an extra thing that would help harrass those who look 'suspicious' (you can read dressing funny, driving an old banger of a car, having dreads or whatever into that) while not actually helping solve anything, and as such, I would really resent having to pay for a card I know I'd regularly forget to carry with me, that I don't think would help anyway, and could result in me being arrested/fined for not having.

How about a microchip implanted in the hand, that would serve as an ID and as digital cash. You don't have to make them mandatory, but just get rid of all other forms of currency. It would save the economy all the trouble of keeping track of checks and cash and different cards and such. It would make muggings impossible (have the chip go dead if the owner dies, thus preventing the "cutting off the hand trick"). It would decimate the drug trade by removing the ability to purchase things with untraceable cash. It would also help prevent identity theft, since no one can steal your card.

Patriarch, what a sterile world you envision.

ID cards are totally unnecessary.

Its a ridiculous debate really. There is no way they can reduce fraud - In fact they are likely to cause a massive increase because as soon as someone works out how to clone them they have your passport, national insurance details, NHS number, driving licence AND biometric details.

I'm still in favour of old fashioned metal and paper money as well as paper documents.

I like being able to defend myself by carrying my spare change in a sock and swinging it at someone's head

Implanted chips are the way to go. Instead of a wallet full of cash, various forms of ID, credit cards, checks, etc., you just have a chip in your hand. To buy things, just wave your hand over a scanner. If the poice want to know who you are, they just scan your hand. Robbers can't steal it, taxes are automatically charged at the point of sale, and you can't buy illegal things (like drugs).

It could also keep track of all your medical info, so doctors will know if you are allergic to anything, or if you collapse they can instanly know if your diabetic, or whatever. Combine it with GPS (or even a low form of RF), and we can keep track of kids in school, kids that get kidnapped, etc.

Again, the people that don't want it don't have to get it. It doesn't have to be mandatory. However, other forms of cash and ID will be phased out. To participate in the gloabl market, you will need it. However, if you want to live by yourself in a bunker and grow your own food, you can do that. Plenty of paranoid wackos will object to it, but who needs them? If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't worry.

i agree we need id cards but at 100 quid a peice come on it doesnt cost that much to make a plastic card even with a photo which you have to provide also

the chip thing is a good idea but in a card with maybe a security pin like chip and pin have the card should ust have name and date of birth on but the chip contain the rest of the inforamtion that way they cant be cloned (i dont like the implant idea at all too much pain and can cause problems such as ppl with no arms, disabilities, fact ud have to be implnted and if the chip gets something wrong it would mean an op to replace it anyway...,.)

im in favour of i.d. but i will refuse as i can not afford to pay 100 quid plus another 100 for my bfs as im sole provider he is sole carer of my son, and also then to pay for my sons aswell

what about thos on benefits they definately cant afford it...

government would make money anyway they feel, you have to pay for bloody bank statements if you want backdated ones these days its getting stupid


we are getting to the point of being over greedy where money is invoved and thats half the worlds problems and why we have wars now

rant over im tired bedtime

For people with no arms, the chip goes in the forehead. In fact, anyone can choose either the right hand or the forehead.

I see no reason to presume that you can transfer funds between personal accounts, Sethis. At least, not by yourself in secret. If you want to transfer money, you will have to go through an authorized source (bank terminal, or just from a web site). Of course, it will still be easy to give a gift (easier than writing a check now). However, if you start transfering large "gifts" to a shady character with previous drug convictions, you could expect those transaction to get flagged.

What do you mean you "See no reason to presume you can make personal transfers"??? What about pocket money? Birthday presents? Personal loans? Favours? Unofficial work (like mowing the lawn when you were a kid)?

What's stopping the dealer from simply getting a friend with a clean record to have the money sent into his account? The friend gets 10% and the dealer gets clean payments. It would also be fairly easy to set up a fake excuse for the money transfers... maybe personal counselling or similar.

Those transactions could easilly be accomplished. However, since all money will really exist in computers somewhere, the movement of money from one account to the other will always be tracked. The chips themselves are not little hard disks that store the money, they are just a form of ID.

Obviously, if a drug dealer gets a friend with a clean record to start passing cash from other people to him, and taking a %10 cut, this would be even more noticable then a simple person to person transfer.

It would be difficult to make a system that is impossible to commit fraud under, but we can make a system that will make it very hard to commit fraud. If all cash exist in government computers, drug trafficking will become much more difficult. Either they will have to set up elaborate money laundering schemes, or switch to a barter system.

Such a system might never be perfect, but it will be an improvement. No more simple suitcases full of cash.

The bartering sounds like the better idea. People will simply start exchanging drugs for gold, silver, or magic cards.

Of course, it would be very easy to establish a totalitarian state with such technology.

I'd rather give up safety over freedom.

I'll die in an explosion on the subway before I allow my bag to be searched.

@ Chronofracture:

Patriarch: Was that sneering sarcasm about the cards, or playful fun? I want to know before I react.

patriarch i really do think u need help

if life became how u pictured it we may aswell all be robots as we will be controled, by the government a lot more than we are and i dont think it would help at all

i picture a madmax or jesse james scene with outlaws hiding in a secret society living there way...

and why all the thing about drug traffiking, no one mentioned drugs in all this i think your living in your own little world there

i agree with the bible reading and the fact i think you want us all branded government property, id rather become an outlaw

i was just going to say that! as soon as getting a chip in the hand or forehead came up my heart sank. im not a religious person but i do know that in the bible it is said the above statement, i would not ever want to have a chip for various reasons, but im skeptical

the id card im undecided, im justr fed up of feeling controled by the governments for many reasons, bah i dunno im tired

Oh cool it would be just like Logans Run and Equlibrium, except without the carrosel or those pills that surpress emotions and turn your into a zombie...oh wait we allready have that its called weed

Wait no I wouldnt be in the resistance ide work for the goverment to ferrit you all out

I wouldnt care if the goverment knows what im spending my money on at any given time of day, I mean it'le only be baked beans and loaves and bread and stuff, big whoop let em have me on record if they really want me too they can im not gonna complain

I assure you. I would die before I would let anyone put a chip in my hand or forehead that was the sole way of buying or selling things. However, my objection is not that it doesn't make good sense from a government's perspective. I can see many benefits from moving to such a system.

No sneering sarcasm. I not only think they are a useful idea, but I think they are inevitable. I personally would die before accepting one, but there will always be wackos and rebels who won't want to participate in a global economic system.

ID Application Forms

It's all turning a bit "minority report".

You know those adverts on the interent that are supposedly geared towards you? Like when you go onto a mythology site then there are adverts for replica swords and fantasy novels?

It'd be like that every time you used the chip... because the reader could tell what you bought last/often/regularly.

It's bad enough on Amazon - I've bought far more presents on there than things for myself, so it keeps telling me I want to buy the latest wave of crapness that my sisters seem to enjoy.

I'd hate it if that became the standard in advertising.

But the checkout boy/girl knows exactly what you bought, and in all likelihood really couldn't give a toss. I can't see why the government would care that much either.

ID cards do not bother me at all. I have to carry generic and site specific ones at all times and have compulsory drug tests five times a year (different topic, but), so I can't see much difference in company ones and government ones.