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#735996 - 24/05/06 10:34 PM
Sorry, But I Must Object!
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newbie
Registered: 24/05/06
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First off, let me say that I love the site. And though I have a feeling that I will not be liked very much after this post, I'm glad to be a part of this community. Now on to the negativity.
I would very much like to comment on post after post condemning  Fire Breathing. Here, as well as every site that I seem to visit about the fire arts, contain horrible warnings about Fire Breathing and it's effects as if the simple thought of the art would turn you into a HIDEOUS MONSTER FROM BEYOND DEATH AND HELL!!!!!!!!!!AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
And yet thousands of people are doing it everyday. Now, do not take me wrongly. I do agree that the art is dangerous. Kinda like stepping into a hug steel box full of hundreds of pounds of jet fuel. And then, with relative stupidity, launching that box five miles into the air just so you can get from one place to another faster. Good lord! We would never imagine doing that now would we?
Or why would we ever dream of jumping out of that box with a sheet extended over our heads, attached by a couple of strings, just to make our fall to the earth a little softer? Oh my God thats ludicrous!!!
But we do it. And we do it without constantly advising these people of the dangers of flight or parachuting. Ok...I've gotten off track here. My point is simply this. Any time you decide to play with fire for the fun of it your placing yourself at risk. PERIOD!!!
There is no imphasis on Fire Breathing here. The imphasis should be on lighting a fire at all. You light a camp fire and you run the risk of burning the whole forest down. Your light a grill and you run the risk of it blowing up in your face.
I've been a breather for eight years now. I've never been burned, I've never burned anybody else, I've never gotten sick from the fuel, or lost my teeth, or ended up in the hospital as a result. I make gold from fire and I'm happy!
I mean come on! Poi seems more dangerous to me. Slinging around a burning cloth on the end of a chain? Right! I invision audience members burning to death from a poi thats gotten out of hand. I refuse to stand within a hundred feet of those guys in case they miss a beat and throw that thing all over me! At least my tower burns out in a few seconds.
Look, Im not trying to make waves here. I sympathize with those who have been injured while breathing. But I feel a little hurt that the art that I love so much is being turned into the worst thing since the fall of lucifer! Especially when something as dangerous as poi is getting the old shoulder shrug.
Fire Breathing is a magnificent art. Dangerous it is. As is any other fire art. More dangerous than the rest? I don't think so. And I resent the acclimation.
Edited by Scorched_Out (24/05/06 10:43 PM)
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#735998 - 24/05/06 10:45 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Drudwyn]
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newbie
Registered: 24/05/06
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Ok...I'll take the bait.
What mistake from breathing could you make to get you killed? Let's play this just for a second.
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#735999 - 24/05/06 10:46 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Drudwyn]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 14/07/05
Loc: Sihanoukville, cambodia
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I think the fact that there are so many warnings is because this is a site in which many young people also visit. Its merely meant to be a warning for those that are inexperienced in it. You have obviously been doing it a long time and know what you are doing, but a lot of people on here have never tried it,and are therefore more at risk. I appreciate exactly what you are saying about poi aswell, but there are also discussion thread etc on this. How to make your poi as safe as possible etc,the effect spinning any fire has on your body so it is not just Fire Breathing. You also have to remember that seeing Fire Breathing from an audiences perspective is one of the most impressive things.If you have never seen fire arts before and you see someone breathing...its gonna make you go "wow!". This means that its also high on the list of things people want to try if they're interested,and in a lot of cases one of the first things they will try. Hence why it has so many warnings on this site. And..  to Drudwyns point. 
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#736000 - 24/05/06 10:49 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Drudwyn]
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member
Registered: 29/10/05
Loc: manchester, uk
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Hmmm..I'm seeing both your points on this I feel its fair to warn people-a lot- about the risks of, say, chemical pneumonia with Fire Breathing, but in the same way as warnings exist on cigarettes...not in such a scaremongering fashion as currently seems to be the trend. There should be fair and reasoned arguments for all fire play, for both the pros and cons... Fire Breathing is a little more dangerous than, say, lighting a grill (or swinging poi), but INFORMED choice should be promoted
_________________________
-spinnin' to the rhythm of the new world order-
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#736001 - 24/05/06 10:51 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Scorched_Out]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 14/07/05
Loc: Sihanoukville, cambodia
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Written by: Scorched_Out
Ok...I'll take the bait.
What mistake from breathing could you make to get you killed? Let's play this just for a second.
A girl who used to work for Hybrid..(the group i perform with)..was doing a Fire Breathing act for a gig.
Unfortunately,although she had been doing it for a long time,she slipped up this time.
She accidently inhaled some of the vapour towards the end of the burnwhich consequently scorched her throat and air passages.
Unable to breathe she was carted off to the hospital.
Her lungs flooded, starved her brain of oxygen, and she was in a coma for 4 weeks and very nearly died.
Thats how.
Not a nice story i know, but you did ask!
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#736002 - 24/05/06 10:53 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: maus]
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newbie
Registered: 24/05/06
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hmmm...I see your point. I do make it a point before each show to give everyone the "DONT TRY THIS AT HOME" warning. I guess what I'm really trying to express here is how poi, and all the other spinning arts is so highly praised and encouraged while breathing gets pushed off as evil.
I guess I just feel like the bad guy. Black sheep of the family.
Baaaaaaaa!...lol
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#736004 - 24/05/06 10:54 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Drudwyn]
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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no disrespect intended, but i think you will find that most people on this site disagree with you scorched_out.
Fire Breathing is not presented as a demon of the fire arts and is practiced by a good few people on this site.
it is simply highlighted here as the fire art with the highest potential of serious injury - it carries risks that are simply not present in other fire arts.
most people learn a whole buncvh of moves with poi before they move onto spinning fire - Fire Breathing has a much more dangerous learning curve.
after eight years, i would expect you are aware of all the risks and are conditioned to avoid them but they are still there (as pele's article and interview describe in detail).
more importantly, someone that has just seen Fire Breathing and has come here to find out more then give it a go needs to fully understand the risks.
i agree that any form of fire is dangerous, especially if the proper safety measures are ignored.
but is there really anything wrong with treating the risks of Fire Breathing with a large amount of respect?
as for your risk comparisons, a poi can be put out with a fire blanket, parachutists have reserve chutes, inhaling aspirated fuel will most likely kill you.
your comparison of Fire Breathing to air travel however is one of the most laughable risk comparisons i've ever heard! 
cole. x
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#736005 - 24/05/06 11:02 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: coleman]
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newbie
Registered: 24/05/06
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One more question. What the heck is chemical pneumonia? ARDS?
Wait...wait....wait!!!!!! Even more, how in the heck do you manage to inhale aspirated fuel or inhale the tail end of a burn? The trick is to cut off the burn and step away before you breath. Thats how I was trained to do it. Inhale, sip the fuel, blow the burst, cut the burst, step away and the breath.
Am I missing something here?
Edited by Scorched_Out (24/05/06 11:07 PM)
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#736006 - 24/05/06 11:03 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Scorched_Out]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 14/07/05
Loc: Sihanoukville, cambodia
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Written by: Scorched_Out
hmmm...I see your point. I do make it a point before each show to give everyone the "DONT TRY THIS AT HOME" warning. I guess what I'm really trying to express here is how poi, and all the other spinning arts is so highly praised and encouraged while breathing gets pushed off as evil.
I guess I just feel like the bad guy. Black sheep of the family.
Baaaaaaaa!...lol
Thats good that you do that and i have the utmost respect for the fact that you do warn them.
But a lot of people don't listen 
Its like when you spin poi, whether its on fire or glow, you still spaend half your time avoiding hitting people they deem it acceptable to walk directly next to you.
And yeah Cole's right, its just the fact that it can cause such serious injury, compared to other fire arts.
Its not that anyone thinks less of Fire Breathers at all, its just we feel that the risk are that bad its worth mentioning them so that peope who want to do it can be fully informed and make up their own mind.
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#736007 - 24/05/06 11:05 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: maus]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 14/07/05
Loc: Sihanoukville, cambodia
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#736011 - 24/05/06 11:16 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: maus]
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newbie
Registered: 24/05/06
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Sounds like hype to me. I'll be willing to bet my next shows gold that most accidents happen because of inexperience and bad or no training at all. With proper training it becomes no more dangerous than any other fire art. Chem flu?....hehehe...oooooooooooook
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#736012 - 24/05/06 11:21 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Scorched_Out]
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newbie
Registered: 24/05/06
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I use 100% paraffin. Ben.....man! If he's the only one that you have ever seen to bring glory to the art...maybe you should get out more.
Myself and my team put on an hour long show that will make you stand in awe. Pyromancer is awesome! Im better. And I got the flames to prove it.
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#736015 - 24/05/06 11:34 PM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Birgit]
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newbie
Registered: 24/05/06
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lol sorry. Im just <i>Fired</i> up. Excuse the pun...ha ha
Im just spitting into the wind. Ooopps! Did I say that? Ok so I've been up a little to long. Getting gidddddddy. But I respect all posts. This has been fun. thanks guys!
As a side note, I really do feel that people should get proper training before trying any of the fire arts. Im not talking about reading a bunch of books and watchin' a few vids. I mean hands on. One on One. With a pro!
Look what happened to Pele. I respect her for who she is and for her natural talent. But she burned because she was not properly trained. It's that simple.
I'm telling you. I was a pet to my trainer for weeks before Iwas even showed how to wrap a wick around a tourch. I had to diet, work out, spray water, then spray milk...the guy even tought me taijichuan so that I understood how to move correctly.
Folks please! Stop spending the money on books and video and use it to fund a good round of training. Or go to college...lol. Theres the safest bet.
Edited by Scorched_Out (24/05/06 11:42 PM)
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#736018 - 25/05/06 12:24 AM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Scorched_Out]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 14/07/05
Loc: Sihanoukville, cambodia
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Written by: Scorched_Out
This has been fun. thanks guys!
Not the attitude i expected from someone who is professional.
Written by: Scorched_Out
One more question. What the heck is chemical pneumonia? ARDS? [/qoute]
As a professional you SHOULD know this. For your own health please use the websites i already posted for yourself and forward them to those you teach.
Written by: Scorched_Out
As a side note, I really do feel that people should get proper training before trying any of the fire arts. Im not talking about reading a bunch of books and watchin' a few vids. I mean hands on. One on One. With a pro!
I agree that people should have one on one training. But they should also have the capabilities to research the dangers of it themselves, before they even consider training.
Written by: Scorched_Out
Look what happened to Pele. I respect her for who she is and for her natural talent. But she burned because she was not properly trained. It's that simple.
No. Its not always that simple. Accidents happen no matter how highly trained you are.
The woman from Hybrid had been doing it for years.
Written by: Scorched_Out
I'm telling you. I was a pet to my trainer for weeks before Iwas even showed how to wrap a wick around a tourch. I had to diet, work out, spray water, then spray milk...the guy even tought me taijichuan so that I understood how to move correctly.
You are lucky. However others are not as fortunate as you when it comes to who trains them, this is why the risks need to be pointed out as often as possible.
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#736019 - 25/05/06 01:55 AM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: maus]
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veteran
Registered: 25/11/03
Loc: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
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I'm sorry but there are wanings about everything that is considered dangerous all over the world...if you feel you are so well educated instead of making yourself appear to be far more superior than the rest of us why not use your skills to teach people how to fire breathe properly... You asked us why we always say so much on the precautionary side well that is because a number of us have seen people seriously injure themselves (including people who are meant to be fully trained and have been doing it for years). We answered your question but you seem to mock us when we tell you the answer YOU requested... We have done research on the side effects of the fuels that are used by Fire Breathers and I am kind of scared that someone who deals with these fuels does NOT seem to know the problems that they can cause. As a twirler I make sure everyone that I teach as well as myself and also the people that watch me when I perform know ALL the things that I am aware of that could go wrong....all the safety problems with it. Your attitude, frankly, scares me. And yes I would also be saying the same thing to a fire twirler who was not aware of the full risks and being as cock sure as you are being....
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#736020 - 25/05/06 01:58 AM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: maus]
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UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Registered: 26/05/04
Loc: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
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Purely out of interest - what qualifies someone as a professional? They guy that taught you, what made him so special?
Nothing attacking, no sarcasm, just want to know.
Edited by Domino (25/05/06 02:01 AM)
_________________________
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
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#736021 - 25/05/06 02:50 AM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Domino]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/05/04
Loc: uk
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I've been performing 'professionally' with fire for the last four years, including all the major fire arts, fire-breathing inclusive, I also teach these skills to a high and 'safest' possible standard, for this I use a lot of peer reviewed material, mostly from this site for which I'm rather greatful. I put a dissproportionate amount of time into practising fire-breathing due to the risks involved, mainly asperation techniques and limit 'live Fire Breathing' and have found consistently that apserated water and or fuel unburnt will remain airbourne for some time while evolving into a cloud and can and does travel a substantial distance, very occaisionally this can remain airbourne for upto 20 seconds or more. It was this mainly that demonstrated to me just how easy it could be for a performer or even an audience member to unintentionally inhale asperated fuel. mark
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#736022 - 25/05/06 03:32 AM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: marco]
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I make my own people.
Registered: 02/10/05
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
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I think "professional" means you do it for money... it's your profession. It seems like a good idea to present Fire Breathing as a really dangerous thing that most people probably shouldn't do, since it is. We put warnings on cups of coffee to let people know that they are hot, after all. The reason isn't that people think that coffee is supposed to come out cold. People know that fire will burn you. However, I know I would feel really bad if I ran a site that seemed to encourage Fire Breathing, and some kid were to burn his face (or worse). I know it seems silly to say "here's how to do it, but don't!" However, this isn't chess, and people need to understand just how bad things could get.
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#736023 - 25/05/06 03:50 AM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: Scorched_Out]
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NYC
Registered: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Written by: Scorched_Out
Myself and my team put on an hour long show that will make you stand in awe. Pyromancer is awesome! Im better. And I got the flames to prove it.
I'll bet your crew could kick my ass at counterstrike too.
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#736024 - 25/05/06 05:39 AM
Re: Sorry, But I Must Object!
[Re: NYC]
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Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Wales
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Quite frankly Scorched_Out, I wouldn't employ you to perform. You're utter lack of knowledge of the dangers of Fire Breathing and totally flippant attitued to people trying to help you learn them, stinks. If you were as perfectly well trained as you are trying to claim to be, you would know all these risks people are telling you about in this thread. I don't know any genuinely professional, well trained fire breather that would claim that there is no risk of chemical pneumonia or ARDS from Fire Breathing.
No matter how well trained you are or how much you prepare for each Fire Breathing session, you cannot be in control of every factor. There will always be a risk. This is true of all fire arts. Sadly Fire Breathing, if it goes wrong, can have a very high price to pay. That is why this and many other sites rightfully warn of the dangers.
If you bother to look around this site a bit more you will also see warnings about all fire arts and the saftey precautions you should take. Safety is not a joke.
I think the balance of warning, to teaching, to support is pretty much right on HoP.
_________________________
Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!
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