Insurance

We are having issues with our insurance. They want to raise our rates to just over $3000 (USD) per year and add on insurance that we don't need. We have standard General Liabilty now. This covers if we mess up and someplace becomes ignited, it covers our equipment and costumes and if we get hurt for whatever reason (aside from fire...like if we sprain an ankle in a pothole). They want to add on medical that we have no use for as well as some other kinds that i asked the fire marshall about and he disagrees with the necessity of (like pyrotechnic coverage??? We don't blow things up! ...yet ). I am not happy. I am wondering, what do you all find as reasonable insurance rates? What types of coverage do you have, and what do they cover?
Have you found that you can get this from most *regular* insurance companies, the kind that supply auto and home coverage normally, or did you have to find someplace specifically handling abnormal insurances?
Thanks in advance.

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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

This is snipped off a conversation on the Colorado Fire Tribe.

>Well, my clown insurance does cover fire >and any fires of buildings, land, ect. that >I accidentally set. My policy runs thru >march and the must be renewed for $95. Wait >until march to get a full years worth of >insurance for $95 bucks

I believe the insurance being referred to is
Al Fellerman Insurance unfortunately the conversation just died. I did a search for and found the following info on Al Fellerman Insurance as well as a couple other places specializing in clown insurance.

Al Fellerman Insurance
Clowns of the U.S.
7732 Cayenne Plaza West
Woodbury, MN 55125
phone: 651-738-0280 fax: 651-501-2988 e-mail: alzie@uswest.net

Hampson Mower Kreitz Agency
phone: 610-868-8507 fax: 610-868-7604 e-mail: tgoldsmith@hmk-ins.com

Whitehouse
Woodall Reeves
Birmingham, UK
phone: 0121-0765-4870

I just called them this afternoon, actually, completely incidental to this post... <creepy!> But here are the details of the conversation:

Standard coverage for fire performers is 2 million coverage for $95 per year per performer (April 25- April 25) NON prorated. This covers:

$10,000 medical per audience member injured.
$300,000 fire damage
No premium.

Pele was able to point out a few weaknesses in this coverage, but I'll leave that for her to point out to y'all, as I have NO experience on this front...

do you guys find most indoor venues you ask at, do they require you to have insurance? for someone just getting started with performances other than parties, should i bother setting insurance up yet?

heh 2 all
im a u.k. fire performer and am wondering if any1 has any info on insurance here.im looking in2 equtity ,but would appreciate suggestions.im just sticking 2 fluero in clubs but fire is how i learnt,and allways my 1st love

I emailed that clown company Insurance place last night,and I received a reply today.
No it isn't just for clowns.
Yes they can insure for just about anywhere in the U.S..
My local fire department says the bare bones coverage is more than adequate (though they have been more than helpful!).
Thank you so much Jesse and Cryspix.
We signed up today to start coverage in the end of April.
Heph, yes, yes and yes. I think almost every venue, indoor and out, that I have performed in....with or *without* fire (alot of ren faires require independnet acts to carry insurance regardless of what they do) request insurance. Indoor especially.
Even if I was working places and private parties that don't even think about asking me for insurance I have it. If something goes wrong I honestly think it is better to spend the $95 bucks a year and have the coverage rather than get my ass sued off.
But that is just my opinion.
Thanks gals and guy!

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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

I wanted to dredge this thread up. I'm looking into the same people. I'm not a professional, but I figure that for $145 a year (the current rate), I can't very well go wrong. I can afford that much.

What has been your experience so far? Are these guys good?

I am insured through clowns of the us as well..
being i am not part of a large group or troupe i pay 145 per year..I know a couple of the fire guilds are trying for group rates.

I emailed to the email listed for Al Fellerman and got an email back saying that they don't do any fire-related insurance at all.
Does anyone perchance have up-to-date contact info for someone who does fire insurance as of now (November '02)? I've been trying to find out about it too, with very little luck...

Now that's interesting, because I called them two days ago and asked if they insured fire spinners against fire damage and they said yes.

Boy, I hope I don't burn anything down and then they try not to pay.

Of course, for what I could win off of them in a fraud lawsuit, I could easily pay for the lawsuit against me...

Jade,

What you want to ask about is performance insurance for people who use fire, not fire insurance. They might have been confused; fire insurance is something for homes, buildings, or automobiles.

We (Ash Circle) are with Al Fellerman, and they've been great so far.

Probably because talent and venue were being handled by separate people for one of our shows, a client ended up more or less springing the need for liability insurance on us at the last minute. I explained the need for a rush to the woman from Clowns of the US on the phone. We couriered the application and payment to them on a Friday and they faxed proof of insurance to us on MONDAY. Problem solved.

We've looked around at other companies, including Clowns of America International, who have said that they don't insure outside the US (uuh... WHY they call themselves international then, is beyond me) without success. Private companies don't seem to know what to do with fire performers, so they come up with these insanely expensive packages that we can't afford. Al Fellerman buys a group policy from another company and sells the shares to performers, which is why they can afford to offer $2 million liability etc. for $145 USD a year per person.

For Canadians out there especially, coming from someone in a troupe that's looked around, Al Fellerman is probably the way to go.

peace.

[ 08 November 2002, 05:01: Message edited by: Rick ]

After trying again and again I finally got through to the Al Fellerman Clowns of America contact and I have some rather unhappy news for everyone.

According to the woman I contacted there, the insurance broker they were using for fire-performance insurance saw some videos of some fire-performances and they got all scared and decided that they won't cover fire performance.

The lady I talked to said that she didn't hear about any accidents happening. Nobody's been sued, nobody's been hurt. They're simply acting on an alarmist reaction to some video they saw.

She has told me that in April when it comes time to renew people's insurance that a lot of people will be unable to renew, unless they manage to find someone to cover them.

Try Clowns of American now. If I can dredge up the info, I will post it. But I switched to them after the indifference from Al Fellermen.

Okay, now, I am not keeping my mouth shut.
I want to make a fire safety video with a couple of other performers (Djinn from Australia and Charles in NZ). In it I hope that we can cover the basics of fire safety for what we do. I have also been asked to write a manual that also illustrates the fire safety for what we do, but then goes further into fire safety concerns for performers. Though I have been asked to do these, I have also been told no one would be interested in buying them. My friend, who is a fire inspector for an insurance company, told me that if I were to submit those, with a demo of what I do and my fire safety protocal sheet, he wouldn't turn me down for insurance. It's about creating a base standard for people who don't know any better, Authorities and Insurance Co. included.
So, would you all buy them or am I shooting out my arse here?

Just wanted to remind any one who is on Duck For Cover that it is time to renew. Don't forget that if you get in before the 12th it is $30 cheeper.