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#671472 - 24/12/05 10:07 PM
English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
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HOP Mad Doctor
Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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We had a "pedantic" thread back a while ago where the goal was to write whatever...as long as it was in perfect grammatically correct English. We're not asking for that. But for many readers of this board, English is not their first language. And for some of us, who learned to read and write properly  it's very difficult to decipher a mess of gibberish with no punctuation, abbreviations up the wazoo (eg: "u shud cum 2 my house im havin a partee coz its my birfday an well get v drunk"), and spelling that is...original. Now I grant this isn't my high school Honors English class, but PLEASE have the decency to at least try to use correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar? Really, we all learned these basics in (forgive me) grammar school.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
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#671473 - 24/12/05 10:18 PM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: Doc Lightning]
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Member
Registered: 15/10/05
Loc: Caves Beach, NSW
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Americans don't really speak english do they?
But then again, I don't like what the English do with it either.
Jeff (Born in the USA)
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#671474 - 24/12/05 11:38 PM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: jeffhigh]
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Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Registered: 03/07/05
Loc: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
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Mike - I take it you aren't the only one bothered by this? I have issues with it too - it's highly annoying! As a kid I was the class dictionary - from when I was something like 9, right up to when i left school (at 15  ) though out my secondary education though, I was annoyed how people couldn't punctuate. Was it the results of living in a simplistic village in Wales (inbreeding?  ) ?? Probably!
_________________________
I drive bus now?
I eat biscuits with my eyes.
I can walk through walls.
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#671475 - 24/12/05 11:49 PM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: TinklePants]
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addict
Registered: 23/02/05
Loc: Cannock, staffordshire
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some people actually cant help it and here in uk we dont have grammer school just english lessons...
im dyslexic to the extent i drop punctuation a lot and i get certain words and there spellings mixed up like beleive/ believe
but i am learning not to use text language
_________________________
enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token
o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek
stepped up promotions
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#671477 - 25/12/05 01:42 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: dani_babyboo]
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Liquid Cow
Registered: 03/09/01
Loc: High Wycombe, England
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I get incredably annoyed about this - as I've posted in a number of threads, if you don't consider your thoughts to be worth writing out in an easy to understand format, why should anyone else consider them worth decyphering?
Written by: dani_babyboo
some people actually cant help it and here in uk we dont have grammer school just english lessons...
im dyslexic to the extent i drop punctuation a lot and i get certain words and there spellings mixed up like beleive/ believe
but i am learning not to use text language
Ok, here's where I'll probably pick up some bad opinion - I don't think dyslexia is a valid excuse.
In fact, I think using it as one is just lazy and defeatist.
Effectively, it's saying 'I find this difficult, so I'm going to give up, make no effort at all and just make excuses instead'. I don't think that's a particularly good attitude to have, whether it be about spelling and grammar or anything else.
Now, I'm not saying that dyslexia == laziness, I know dyslexic people who make the effort needed to write easy to read posts, even if that's just adding blank lines to break the text up a bit.
As an example, I found dani_babyboo's post easy to read - it's not all heaped into one mass of text, it's broken up into readable sections, and all it took was a couple of extra button pushes.
It's not perfect, but if it's easy to read and gets the point across well, spelling mistakes and dropped punctuation can be given a bit of leeway I think.
Edited by TheBovrilMonkey (25/12/05 01:44 AM)
_________________________
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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#671478 - 25/12/05 01:46 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: Richee]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 16/05/05
Loc: York University
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I went to a Grammar School (in the UK) but the people who went to the comprehensive could still write... well... some of them could... a bit...   Yes it irritates me having to mentally insert punctuation/spelling into other people's writing. Dani- You spelt "believe" correctly there, deliberately. Doesn't that indicate that you can do it whenever? Or do I not know anything about dyslexia? Well, I don't know very much about dyslexia anyway, but if you can spell something right one time, then how does it change for the next? A very Happy Holidays to all.
_________________________
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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#671480 - 25/12/05 02:00 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: Sethis]
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veteran
Registered: 15/05/03
Loc: London/ Surrey
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I doubt this thread is aimed at dyslexics Dani, rather people who really couldn't give a crap when it takes all of 30 seconds to copy paste into word to use the spelling and grammar checker, if that person knows his/her spelling/grammar is poor. Note: this will not always help dyslexics (so I'm not picking on you guys!), depending on the form, as spelling can be an issue with homophones, and word's grammar checker often only comes up with 'consider revising' for more than minor grammatical errors. p.s.... anyone else feeling pressurised into writing very, very carefully spelling and grammar-wise in this thread?
_________________________
The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.
Always make time to play in the snow.
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#671481 - 25/12/05 02:03 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: Fine_Rabid_Dog]
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Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Registered: 03/07/05
Loc: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
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#671482 - 25/12/05 03:34 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: TinklePants]
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Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Wales
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There are many different ways dyslexia effects people. I too am dyslexic. I find the written word fairly hard to use. I find it very hard to put into text my thoughts. It all gets jumbled up. Grammar is my downfall. Not because I don't understand the rules. It's more I can't
find ways of applying the rules to what I write.
Spelling is very hard. I was taught to read mainly by learning word pictures in my head. Words that I write and I read over and over again are like shapes I recognise. If a word isn't spelt correctly or isn't one I've seen often I find it really hard to work out what it is. If I spell a word wrongly I can usually tell it's not spelt right but I can't for the life of me tell you how to put it right. I find phonetically sounding out words hard unless they are split up into syllables like Hipp-o-pot-am-us. Lots of letters all strung together without spaces make no sense to me. The same goes for numbers. Long strings of numbers I find very hard to deal with, hence I can't quote my mobile phone number to you. I have no idea what it is. I learn phone numbers by dialling them and remembering the pattern they make on the phone keypad.
It's the same with text. If there are no breaks, or commas, or full stops in a piece of text I find it really hard to figure out what is being said. I need the spaces and the punctuation to indicate to me where one thing ends and a new one begin. Otherwise the words all just end up running into each other.
Text speak leaves me confused and takes me ages to figure out what's being said.
Form filling is my idea of hell, because I can never be concise enough to get what I want to say into those little boxes. I'm also not very good at visualising how much space what I want to write will take up.
Being dyslexic isn't an excuse for not trying to use grammar, punctuation and correct spelling. If anything it should make you want to use all of them more. You as a dyslexic know how hard the written word is to understand at the best of times. Leaving out all the commas, full stops and correct spelling will just make it harder for someone else.
_________________________
Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!
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#671483 - 25/12/05 03:37 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: TinklePants]
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enthusiast
Registered: 30/11/05
Loc: Oxford
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I hate people who can't be assed to punctuate, though I have to say it can be quite cute, like using 't' instead of 'the' n stuff.
I've known a few dyslexic people, and with a few of them is was simply laziness, one guy was getting like extra money from college for supposed dyslexia but he really was just lunching the whole thing, used to drive me mad 'cause he didn't actually care.
I do know people who have trouble with how to construct & manipulate sentences to make them easier to read though, but only with written language, they have no trouble with spoken language.
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#671485 - 25/12/05 04:56 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: TinklePants]
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UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Registered: 26/05/04
Loc: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
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I'm dyslexic, I struggled with my language skills and as such want my spelling, grammer and punctuation right (or if not right then acceptable). It irratates me when other people don't make the effort. Think I'm just rehashing what Skully said
_________________________
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
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#671491 - 25/12/05 08:06 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: TheBovrilMonkey]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 28/08/02
Loc: sheffield
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IMO genuine spelling mistakes/slips in grammar are fine; what's annoying is some of the ranting/rambling posts that have appeared recently, particularly the ones that are a big single text block with no breaks. Generally I don't bother reading them because they are, to me, unreadable.
As for lol- I do, as do many others, know what it means, but there was a time when i didn't, and it was annoying to see it then- purely because it meant nothing, and also because it's one of those things that tends to mark out a kind of little club (ie those who know what these things mean).
Then again, writing it out in full is tedious- why not post a smilie instead, that's what they're there for.
_________________________
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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#671492 - 25/12/05 08:39 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: onewheeldave]
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Are you up for it??
Registered: 08/12/04
Loc: Auckland
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I must admit I slip into text speak sometimes. I do try not to though (depends on how drunk I am ). I hate trying to type in a text with a mobile phone, I find it much easier to write in full using a web to text site with the computer. As far as using "lol" is concerned, isn't that what  can be used for? PS: I hope everyone can read this okay...
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#671494 - 25/12/05 11:01 AM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: Cantus]
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HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Registered: 04/08/04
Loc: Staines
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i type like a fool so im not going to even get into this one
p.s. i had to make 6 typing corrections in the edit of this post
Edited by PyroWill (25/12/05 11:02 AM)
_________________________
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind
Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife
"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian
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#671495 - 25/12/05 12:17 PM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: PyroWill]
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Check ya later
Registered: 28/07/05
Loc: Lower Shaw Farm
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#671498 - 25/12/05 01:54 PM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: Mint Sauce]
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Liquid Cow
Registered: 03/09/01
Loc: High Wycombe, England
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Written by: Mint Sauce
whenever I can I type my posts out in MS-word first
I always proof reed my posts and to me they look right.
I do try to make my posts readable
Proof there that you're not using dyslexia as an excuse - you make an effort to make yourself understood.
I reckon that genuine mistakes (whether caused by dyslexia or not) are easily overlooked. However, not taking the time to proof read or run a spell check is really just lazy, whether you're dyslexic or not.
Making a post and saying 'I'm sorry if there are mistakes, I'm dyslexic and even though I've tried, some mistakes creep through' is a hell of a lot different to saying 'I'm dyslexic, so I don't need to make the effort to check my spelling because I have an excuse I can fall back on'.
It's only the latter that I have a problem with.
edit.. on the topic of dyslexia, I read recently that trials of teaching dyslexic children to read with one eye closed are working quite well.
The theory is that dyslexics tend to have eyes that don't quite focus on the same place, so when one is looking at the start of a word, the other is looking at the end - so the brain gets a picture of a jumble of letters.
I find it very interesting that something that's so widespread could potentially be helped loads by something so simple 
Edited by TheBovrilMonkey (25/12/05 02:04 PM)
_________________________
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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#671499 - 25/12/05 02:04 PM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: TheBovrilMonkey]
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veteran
Registered: 07/09/03
Loc: Lancs England
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agreed
_________________________
before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)
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#671500 - 25/12/05 02:12 PM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: Mint Sauce]
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veteran
Registered: 07/09/03
Loc: Lancs England
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Humm interesting theory (dyslexia comes in many diferant forms i think)
My dyslexia also runs into my mathematical ability and the way I think though.
I have virtually no mental arithmetic. Given any to numbers I cant add them together without using my fingers or picturing it in my head.
Yes even 2 + 4 I have to go 4 + 1 =5 then 5+1=6. I cant do any times tables only 2, 5, and 10
But you give me a further maths problem like long division or quadratic equations and I can do them no bother.
I have a mechanically structured brain I'm in the top 2 % of the country for mechanical aptitude. I have to visualise everting if I cant visualise it I'm stuffed…
eddited for spelling 
sorry totaly 
Edited by Mint Sauce (25/12/05 02:14 PM)
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#671501 - 25/12/05 04:46 PM
Re: English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation
[Re: Mint Sauce]
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UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Registered: 26/05/04
Loc: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
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I've got to say that "lol" can some times really, really irratate me lol
Far too often I've seen people use it as some kind of punctuation lol
Surely a full stop / period / . would be easier lol
I'll admit, rarely is somthing so funny that I burst into mirth at the end of every sentance lol
_________________________
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
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