And the terrorists win

The NYPD has now begun random bag searches on subway riders.

Yup, folks, in the U.S. you can be randomly stopped and searched.

I sure hope this gets knocked down, because I'd rather die in an explosion than have the fourth amendment trampled.

Vote went through to have the Patriot Act extended too. Yup...
"Land of the free" my lily white backside.

So how does that go with the right to have a gun to defend yourself? Or is that just around the house in case there's burglars? (Sorry, I guess this sounds more sarcastic then it's supposed to be!)

You can care a licensed weapon, still.

care for one? Cute

Happy thought:

Somebody will resist search, and get arrested. They take the case to court, it goes all the way to the top. The Supreme Court takes one look at the PATRIOT act and says it's gotta go.

Now that Bush is stacking the deck, namely his supreme court nominations, he is one step closer to a full-on police state. We can't rely on the Supreme Court as the sole voice of reason in government anymore because nominees are appointed based, not on their sense of fairness or dedication to the Constitution, but on their personal beliefs and convictions. As soon as someone is nominated to a judgeship, everyone starts asking "Well, where do they stand on abortion?" or "What do they think of flag-burning?" Then, if they don't like the answers, they berate and accuse said nominee of being unfit for such an important position.

As far as carrying a gun, it's only a matter of time before handguns go the way of cigarettes. It's been suggested in Congress that people should be still allowed to carry concealed weapons--just not on subways, or buses, or crowded restaurants, or any other place the government considers a 'secure location.' And like cigarettes, the only place you will be able to legally use your gun is in your own home or car. Oh, wait, you can't use them there either, can you? Our rights are eroding faster than cotton candy in the rain Land of the thieves, and home of the slaves.

Random searches do little to no good. All they do is make people panicked or resentful. And maybe a few of the dumb ones will 'feel' safer. There are 4 million people using the mass transit system in NYC every day. If you stop to seach even 1 percent of that number, the transit system would grind to a halt.

What bugs me about our 'Terrorist Response Plan' is that it never looks ahead. They said the Patriot Act would make us safe, but all they did was concentrate their efforts on airplane security, because that's what was used on 9/11. They didn't focus on anything else. Then a train in Spain was bombed, so we stepped up security on trains. Now buses and subways are being innundated with security measures, yet no one is doing anything to protect refineries, chemical plants, power plants, bridges, etc. This country waits until something is attacked before doing anything to protect it. Wait until they hit one of our 130-some nuclear reactors, most of which are deemed as "highly unsecure," according to the folks at Dept. of Homeland Security.
*whew* rant over....calming down...anger subsiding....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm

this worries me when it comes to the terrorist response in the UK.

Random bag searches!!!!! Thats a disgrace!!!!!
I never thought that was legal. It cant be.

My mother used to have the tradition of going to new york to visit our american relations every year before christmas. She always went, even 9/11 didnt stop her. But now she and everyone in our family refuse to go there under any circumstances because our fingerprints will be taken. I wish it wasnt the case but we refuse to be treated like criminals just because we're visiting a country.

Im not just complaining about america. Here in ireland theres talk of id cards that EVERYBODY has to carry ALL THE TIME. If you dont carry it you can be prosicuted. Its ricockulous.

Added to that i discovered a while ago that in ireland all mobile phone calls and texts are stored for 3 years in memory banks and police can act on this info.

Oh yeah, whenever your mobile phone is on it reveals your precise global location too.

Just look at all this, if you said these things to somone even 100 years ago they wouldnt believe that freedom could so limited.

It's a Brave New World.

I, for one, will be refusing to be searched and will simply leave and go to another station.

Because if he really had been a suicide bomber and had struggled free for a single second long enough to hit the button...

Not saying it's right or wrong, just that I can understand why.

mmm... Can't wait for the strip searches to start again in Chicago.

What do you mean they never had random body cavity searches?

BAH!

when one of my family friends was coming from the city to visit, he went from his apartment on the subway to penn and then from penn out to the island. He wasn't stopped once, nor see the usual national guardsmen in penn by the lirr. that said, there was a soldier with an M16 at our stop a few days ago;

its a crazy world

I just read in the news over here that in New South Wales they are trying to introduce the random bag checks on public transport too.

If it gets in over there it won't be long till it makes it's way throughout Australia no doubt.

It's sad isn't it that it all has to come to this.

they've had random, semi-compulsory bag checks at major dept. stores for a while now. sure, they can't force you, and they can't touch stuff, but we may have already lost the initiative to be able to fight it...

yep.
it sucks.

i'm finding myself shaking my head in dismay several times a day now.

with all this crap going on, i'm almost losing the will to have an opinion.

but since this thread is here, here is an example of how random searches created more racial tension in the uk last year.




cole. x

we have stop and search too
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4697749.stm

the transport police in london have apparently been instructed to search ethnic groups in proportion to the population...so a certain percentage of white people have to be searched etc. theres been a bit of a strop about this with comments including 'its not white people doing the bombing' etc..
because obviously white terrorists don't exist *rolls eyes*

anyway..i just thought i'd point out that an effort has been made to avoid stirring up more racial tension this time around. whether it will work, slightly different matter.

And don't forget that the police now seem to have the right to pin down an inocent civilian and shoot them 5 times before asking any questions, hmm, i'm moving east.

The terrorists do indeed win if we start acting like this. Although to be honest i'd say it's more a way for governments to pass a load of laws they always dreamed of making but could never find an excuse for.

m

yep...germany 1933 comes to mind... (although i am in no way suggesting the government is framing terrorists for bombs they planted themselves)

you know the only difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter?

what country the press is in.

You've probably seen that before, though.

really, i dont think we are ever going to win against terrorists/freedom fighters. They have the dedication, the resources, the reasons. and no 'coalition of the willing' is going to stop that. I really dunno what i'm trying to say here, so i might just leave it...

one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter..
its very true.
saying so gets you yelled at for being an apologist though.

then maybe i'm an apologist. i sure as hell don't think whats going on, either the war or the terrorism, is right. it'll end as a stalemate. and they suck. look at world war one...

i am an apologist

i dont know...i think i am realising that i cant really pick and choose my freedom fighters (PLO) and my terrorists (Al Quaeda), because whatever their cause their methods remain the same, and those methods mean the deaths of innocent people.
maybe this is called growing up.
dear god, i'll be voting tory next.

and as for the war on terror..
what a stupid [censored] idea that is. all it has proved is that however powerful your weapons are, you cannot beat religious fervour or human determination.

And, were you living in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or any of the other countries we;ve invaded, you may see things the other way round. I dont know for sure, and i hate to put words in your mouth.

The right thing, the right movement, the right method. The only way to find them is to feel them. What's right for me, may not be for you. And thats what makes this world what it is. The differences.

don't worry, those words were there before. i'm just lucky that i can sit in my safe(ish) middle class rural surroundings and make decisions like that.

I can't remember who it was but tony bliar met some foreign leader who gave old bliar a half hour lecture on the difference between a 'terrorist' and a 'reactionary'

tony evidently didn't listen to a single word

"an eye for an eye and the whole world will go blind"

you know that if you refuse to let them search your bag, they refuse to let you on the train. what I want to know is, do they have the right to refuse service?